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-   -   Headshell Modification (http://www.wavemusic.com/community/showthread.php?t=5630)

soundmanshorty 01-26-2007 01:27 AM

Headshell Modification
 
Ok I touched on this for a brief minute in a post about Lotus sound bar. I am offering a modification to the Technics headshells.

This mod actually makes huge Difference in the playback of vinyl on your system when using your Turntables.

What I am offering is Pre 1940s wire that comes off the headshell, and attaches to the Cartridge Body, this DOES make a difference in sound quality, and not by a little bit either , you really hear the Difference on hifi sound systems.

Better level output / stronger output, seperation, image is alot stronger, all the haze around notes is gone more vivid and much more in focus, and very fast in transient response, brass & strings sound brilliant, jus incredible and alot tighter bottom end. really a major improvement on the whole specturm. It aswell pulls out micro and macro details that you never hear in music that you never new was there if your familiar with paticular recordings that you use to demo frequently.

For all Serious about this upgrade email me soundmanshorty@hotmail.com

www.systemsbyshorty.com
www.myspace.com/soundmanshorty

Fred Bissnette 01-26-2007 07:12 AM

is this a solid core type wire shorty?

how much does it cost

peas

djchrishiggs 12-05-2007 08:45 PM

"Pre 1940s wire" "major improvement on the whole specturm"

This is a joke, right?

No change in headshell wire is going to make a 'noticeable' improvement in the sound at all, unless the original wire was in a really bad wire.
The length of the wire is simply far too short, the difference is just the placebo effect.

DSA.audio 12-05-2007 09:06 PM

i tend to agree Chris...

I think dampening the headshell could make a better improvement....
just be careful not to add too much mass...

:)

soundmanshorty 12-05-2007 10:13 PM

LOL I love how guys make
 
judgement on audio upgrades they never hear and rt it off without hearing it. It would be ok to pas judgement if you heard it then say, i dont hear a diff from 1 to the other, but jus to say this is a joke of a statement it wont make a difference without any experience hearing the 2 setups, modified headshell with this cable, and a stk headshell setup with the wire technics suplied wires is crazy.

?, so if the quality of and the amount of copper is better, and there is more copper in the guage of wire, it wont change the sound???, thats the 1st portion the signal passes thru after the cartridge body. So if this wont make a difference then there def should not difference from cheap signal wire to hi quality Mogami rt, or from 16 guage to 12 guage cable rt?

In the early days the amount of copper and quality of the copper was far superior to copper that is used today, so if you had better quality wire what makes you think that would not have a impact on the signal?

I know what i heard, and i had paul demo it for me blind, i was on the floor of Lotus, he had 2 copies of the same record on his system, phono 1 had a stk headshell stk wire with a Grado Cart, phono 2 had the same Grado cart, same amount of hours on it, but phono 2 had the technics headshell with the pre 40s wire on the headshell, and it was drasticly noticable

Clydebuilt 12-06-2007 02:20 AM

Not taking sides here as I haven't actually listened myself, but...

I have been considering buying a pair of origin live silver arms, and emailed the company asking about the wiring in the arm. The last line of the reply I received has some relevance to this thread.

Quote:

Question
'I have read reviews on the incognito re-wire for rega RB250 arms and was wondering how these compare to the supplied wiring in the silver arm.

Do you offer a similar continuous wiring option for the silver tonearm ?'

Answer
'Internal wires must be very thin to avoid arm friction and are thus a compromise - external cabling is uncompromised and the benefits of optimised design far outweigh the benefits of avoiding a hard wired joint (hard wiring is nothing like as degrading as contact joints or brass connectors etc.
The other problems of using the internal wiring externaly is that the wires should be configured at a set distance apart and screening is very costly. Put another way - the ideal, is to request that the external cable is continued all the way to the headshell (which is not possible of course due to friction problems).
Hopefully this may clarify that in our experience the compromise cable is the internal wiring not the external and as said before the joint is relatively insignificant in comparison to the effect of the type of wire used (even over short lengths).'

End Quote:

Doesn't really prove or disprove anything, just interesting that the guys at origin live believe that short runs of cable can have an effect.

abe 12-06-2007 06:09 AM

you could also get rid of the standard rca on tt and put high quality rca.makes a huge difference to the sound

allen 12-06-2007 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundmanshorty
?, so if the quality of and the amount of copper is better, and there is more copper in the guage of wire, it wont change the sound???, thats the 1st portion the signal passes thru after the cartridge body. So if this wont make a difference then there def should not difference from cheap signal wire to hi quality Mogami rt, or from 16 guage to 12 guage cable rt?

In the early days the amount of copper and quality of the copper was far superior to copper that is used today, so if you had better quality wire what makes you think that would not have a impact on the signal?



As a mechanical engineer and someone who has studied metals, their composition and manufacturing processes, I can not find your above statement farther from the truth.

Metallurgy and the manufacturing processes that we use today are light years past what were in use 30 years ago, let alone over 60 years ago in the 1940ís. New processes as well as the ability to better control them enable us today to achieve much higher standards of materials, with greater consistency than we ever have in the past.

Todayís applications of copper and copper wire are far more demanding than they were years ago. The manufacturing techniques and quality of copper and copper wire have risen to meet those needs, and will continue to advance to meet new tougher standards and demands.

Here is a link to an article that talks about some of those advancements, and future demands that copper wire will have to fulfill.

http://www.copper.org/innovations/19...etallurgy.html

The idea that copper quality has gone down over the years is just plain wrong.


Allen

djchrishiggs 12-06-2007 04:47 PM

Allen: I couldn't agree with you more, thank you for putting the record straight here!

Soundmanshorty: Im sure the only reason you are making such bizarre claims is to promote and sell your product(s)?

Remember guys, good sound is good sound, and to reproduce it require good science.

Don't be fooled into thinking vintage is best as usually the opposite is true.

clubman5 12-06-2007 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchrishiggs
"Pre 1940s wire" "major improvement on the whole specturm"

This is a joke, right?

No change in headshell wire is going to make a 'noticeable' improvement in the sound at all, unless the original wire was in a really bad wire.
The length of the wire is simply far too short, the difference is just the placebo effect.

Actually, its not a joke. Copper was different years ago, more copper content, today they add more alloys.

There IS a difference.

clubman5 12-06-2007 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allen
As a mechanical engineer and someone who has studied metals, their composition and manufacturing processes, I can not find your above statement farther from the truth.

Metallurgy and the manufacturing processes that we use today are light years past what were in use 30 years ago, let alone over 60 years ago in the 1940’s. New processes as well as the ability to better control them enable us today to achieve much higher standards of materials, with greater consistency than we ever have in the past.

Today’s applications of copper and copper wire are far more demanding than they were years ago. The manufacturing techniques and quality of copper and copper wire have risen to meet those needs, and will continue to advance to meet new tougher standards and demands.

Here is a link to an article that talks about some of those advancements, and future demands that copper wire will have to fulfill.

http://www.copper.org/innovations/19...etallurgy.html

The idea that copper quality has gone down over the years is just plain wrong.


Allen

Allen, YES, metallurgy, and manufacturing techniques have improved dramatically these days, when it comes to HIGH END speaker cables, interconnects, and AC power cords.

But, standard hardware store and home depot copper wire has more alloys in it today than it did 60 years ago. 5 cents/ft copper wire is not six 9,s copper.

I say, you have to try something and see if you hear a difference, and if you like it or not. BUT, I have found, that even with short lengths of wire, you can hear it! In my system, I have an external ducker unit for the mic, to lower the music when you talk on the mic, it is in the loop of the mixer. Now, I use ordinary West Penn wire with Switchcraft connectors. One day, I bought two pairs of a Swiss made silver interconnects, RCA to RCA, .5 meter length. Two pairs of interconnects, out of all the wire in my system couldnt possibly make an audible difference, right? WRONG! Using the .5 meter silver interconnects, makes a very audible difference!

I have also tried a few high end AC power cords, again, how could 5 feet of AC power cord make an audible difference, considering the miles and miles of utility company wire, grids, and splices, in the streets? But it does!

:)

clubman5 12-06-2007 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchrishiggs
Allen: I couldn't agree with you more, thank you for putting the record straight here!

Soundmanshorty: Im sure the only reason you are making such bizarre claims is to promote and sell your product(s)?

Remember guys, good sound is good sound, and to reproduce it require good science.

Don't be fooled into thinking vintage is best as usually the opposite is true.

And years ago in the 70,s, Julian Hirsch, a reviewer for High Fidelity or Stereo Reveiw magazine, said that we couldnt hear differences between amplifiers IF they measured the same!

And today we acknowledge that we hear big differences between amplifiers, regradless of what the measurements say!

allen 12-06-2007 06:58 PM

Todays.
 
I am not discrediting his finding that he liked the older wire better. Of coarse it could have been better than what was in the other head shell.

What I disagree with is the idea that the 1940ís wire is better than what is available today.

Copper wire is just like anything else, it will be available at all levels of quality, but you donít have to go back to 1940 to find good wire.

We have and can produce better wire that what was available in 1940. Itís a simple fact that we can produce more pure copper than we could in the past.

Allen

djchrishiggs 12-06-2007 07:11 PM

Don't forget also that sound that is pleasing to the ear is not always "technically" better sound quality.

When we get into expensive AC power cords though we are going too far, in my opinion. They are not in the signal chain and therefore do not affect the audio quality, only, possibly removing 'clicks' from mains switches and the like.

Do recording studios use expensive "hi-fi" AC power cords?

Do recording studios use expensive "hi-fi" leads of any sort?

clubman5 12-06-2007 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allen
I am not discrediting his finding that he liked the older wire better. Of coarse it could have been better than what was in the other head shell.

What I disagree with is the idea that the 1940ís wire is better than what is available today.

Copper wire is just like anything else, it will be available at all levels of quality, but you donít have to go back to 1940 to find good wire.

We have and can produce better wire that what was available in 1940. Itís a simple fact that we can produce more pure copper than we could in the past.

Allen

Chemicals used in manufacturing process are definitely different today than what was used years ago.

Sometimes, a chemical used years ago, produced great results, but cant be used today because of enviromental laws!

Bridges, and train trestles STILL use RED LEAD, even though YOU cant buy leaded paints and primers. I know from first hand experience that leaded paints and primers hold up better in harsh conditions, flow on smoother, and lead paints have better pigmentation and coloration.

Todays low VOC paints just dont hold up well at all! But, as good as lead paints were, they arent safe for humans, yet, they ARE superior in many ways. I use leaded sign enamels for certain applications, where people cant get near it, and it IS better!

TUBES! Todays tubes are good, till you listen to tubes from the 60,s, 50,s and 40,s! The gasses they used many years ago in the tubes are outlawed today. Makes a difference! The machining of the parts in tubes years ago is said to have been more precise!

clubman5 12-06-2007 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchrishiggs
Don't forget also that sound that is pleasing to the ear is not always "technically" better sound quality.

When we get into expensive AC power cords though we are going too far, in my opinion. They are not in the signal chain and therefore do not affect the audio quality, only, possibly removing 'clicks' from mains switches and the like.

Do recording studios use expensive "hi-fi" AC power cords?

Do recording studios use expensive "hi-fi" leads of any sort?

Yes, sound that is pleasing is not always technically superior on a scope, this debate rages on.

Many users, including pro, and studio users swear by top notch power cords.

Recording studios have power conditioning, and power cords.

Recording studios do use "hi-fi" leads, speaker cables, interconnects.

Recording studios, the best ones, are also known for their menus of vintage gear, prized for their sound, too!

How will wires, conditioners, and power cords work for you? I dont know! Only you could decide that! You would have to try things and see what it does, and if you like it or not.

marcellus 12-06-2007 08:59 PM

Just to chime in , I work for Verizon in NJ and used to work for them in Manhattan (84 King St.) as a line technician.....the guys that drive the big trucks with the huge roll of cable on the back. The next time any of you seen one of those guys ask them if they think the new copper wire is better than the old copper wire that was used to connect from the old Western Electric equpment and you will get a definite NO. To us the older stuff is far superior to the new stuff being manufactured today. Just my 2 pennies.

allen 12-06-2007 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundmanshorty
In the early days the amount of copper and quality of the copper was far superior to copper that is used today...


This is what I have a problem with. "the amount and qualty of the copper" We can and do produce copper superior to what we coud produce in the past.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcellus
Just to chime in , I work for Verizon in NJ and used to work for them in Manhattan (84 King St.) as a line technician.....the guys that drive the big trucks with the huge roll of cable on the back. The next time any of you seen one of those guys ask them if they think the new copper wire is better than the old copper wire that was used to connect from the old Western Electric equpment and you will get a definite NO. To us the older stuff is far superior to the new stuff being manufactured today. Just my 2 pennies.


Point taken, but this does not say anthing other than they have chossen a lesser quality cable than they have in the past. It doese not mean that higher quality cables are not manufactured or avaible than what was used in the past.

Allen

DSA.audio 12-06-2007 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinyl_junkie
Well I believe Shorty...not because of who he is but I do believe it can change the sound, yes I would like to hear for my self and I am interested in buying some but just afraid of the price lol.
.



look for it on Ebay, you can normally get a hundred feet or so of
Old or NOS WE cloth covered wire for about $10-$35 dollars,
depending on who is selling it...

I've bought it to use when rewiring/reconditioning old tube amps.....

Clydebuilt 12-07-2007 12:19 AM

Nice timing
 
The link in the thread by Matt to Scratchworks, annoucing the Technics MK6 includes the following upgrade:

Improved tonearm mounting and oxygen-free copper wire being used for the signal.

So maybe the current wire is crap, hence why 1940's wire might give better results.

clubman5 12-07-2007 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcellus
Just to chime in , I work for Verizon in NJ and used to work for them in Manhattan (84 King St.) as a line technician.....the guys that drive the big trucks with the huge roll of cable on the back. The next time any of you seen one of those guys ask them if they think the new copper wire is better than the old copper wire that was used to connect from the old Western Electric equpment and you will get a definite NO. To us the older stuff is far superior to the new stuff being manufactured today. Just my 2 pennies.

Give this man a cigar! He said the magic words. "WESTERN ELECTRIC"

:D

thermionic 12-07-2007 03:12 PM

OFC copper cable isn't any more conductive than non-OFC.

The OFC nature stops it from oxidising, so you keep a better contact long-term. It's a good idea, but hardly an esoteric concept.

Personally, even if the headshell wires did make a difference (show me the blind listening results - I've yet to see any - James Randi offers you a million dollars if you can hear speaker cables btw...), this is a classic case of misappropriating funds IMHO. Spend the extra cash and time on something you can hear, i.e. acoustic treatment - that's going to swamp any cable improvements (unless you were using very poor cable, which will sound bad).

I've worked at mastering studios such as The Exchange London, Abbey Road, CTS etc etc. I've never seen any exotic cables, just good quality cable that can be bought on the high street (Abbey Rd endorse a hi-fi cable, but I havenít seen it in the studios Ė funny that..). The Exchange use 30A cooker cable for their immense valve-powered monitors btw.

If you need proof, go and ask the pros at Brad Blackwood's mastering forum: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/f/31/0/

*Some* mastering engineers use esoteric cables, about 1 in 10 by my reckoning. I doubt they would if it were their own money - they get given the cable to endorse it.

BTW - If you do a search @ PSW, you'll find a superb document in Dan Lavry's now-defunct forum showing a chart of how conductivity and capacitance affects sound... It's a non-issue unless you have really poor cable, i.e. the type that comes with an integrated mini-system.

Note that the most reputable professionals DO NOT even discuss esoteric cables, let alone use them...

We're ignoring the mouse and the elephant here - we're looking at a flea on the back of the mouse...

Show me the test data! Show me double blind listening tests. Telephone James Randi if you see a conclusive result.

Justin

BTW - they didn't have OFC cable in the forties... Even if the cable were purer (show me the proof), they didn't have the kit to make it OFC, so the gain in purity would be overridden by oxidisation... Ironic, huh?

marcellus 12-07-2007 03:18 PM

Hand rolled and made in Cuba please, lol!

marcellus 12-07-2007 03:30 PM

So if I get the headshell modification and can hear the difference will U give me 1 million of your dollars? If so, I'll get this done as soon as possible to hear the difference as I'm tired of working and could use your money.

clubman5 12-07-2007 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcellus
Hand rolled and made in Cuba please, lol!

NO!

The cigar to have is The Padron 1964 Anniversario Pyramides! Aged Nicaraguan tobbaco, Nicaragun binder leaf, and aged Micaraguan Maduro wrapper, box pressed! THESE are what Cubans USED to taste like way back when! Smooth, rich, full slightly chocolate flavor, never harsh! Hard to find, and $25.00ea! But, oh what a smoke! When I get my next box, Ill PM you, you MUST try one! Every person I give one to, has taold me it is the best snoke they ever had!

TRUST ME ON THIS!

:)


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