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  #1  
Old 11-03-2003, 01:23 AM
Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson is offline
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The Quality Factor: Rane vs Urei vs Bozak

Hello All!

I was wondering between these three brands,
which one offers the best Hi Fidelity sound.

Thank you,
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  #2  
Old 11-03-2003, 07:39 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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Elliot

Tell me what you will be using the mixer for and Ill tell you which one ( Bozak or Urei ) I would use.

Quality wise the Bozak or Urei are both great. Sonically they are different though.
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  #3  
Old 11-03-2003, 08:15 PM
allen allen is offline
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I have a bozak

I have a Bozak and love it. I've never owned a urei or rane but i'd definatly go urei or bozak and not the rane. One thing to consider is resale. A bozak or urei will keep its value if not go up in value. I got my bozak a few years back for 500 and it is worth at least 3 times that now with the improvments i've made to it. Something to think about.

Allen
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  #4  
Old 11-03-2003, 08:38 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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Re: I have a bozak

Quote:
Originally posted by allen
I have a Bozak and love it. I've never owned a urei or rane but i'd definatly go urei or bozak and not the rane. One thing to consider is resale. A bozak or urei will keep its value if not go up in value. I got my bozak a few years back for 500 and it is worth at least 3 times that now with the improvments i've made to it. Something to think about.

Allen
And the results are coming in! What Allen says is entirely true. A Bozak or Urei is an investment, and the value of your investment will grow, as LONG AS YOU keep your gear in good shape!

The Rane does not sound as good as either of the previously mentioned mixers, and its value will decrease as time goes on.
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  #5  
Old 11-03-2003, 10:49 PM
pbellsound pbellsound is offline
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Agree with me or not, here are some facts:

Hey Elliot,

While the Bozak and Urei mixers were considered “state of the art” for the period they were issued, when tested for response, distortion and frequency shift, they measure poorly. Recently, a “big brand” console company considering marketing a rotary was testing various rotary DJ consoles to see what they would be up against. They were amazed how bad the 1620 measured. The unit was recently refurbished, properly. The reason they are so popular is that all the changes from input to output gives the system a “warm, analogue” sound, in other words, it changes the sound. Not a very accurate audio component, in many an engineer’s view. As far as reliability is concerned, they are no better or worse than a modern rotary from Rane or Crest, spill a drink in them or otherwise abuse them, they’ll all fail one way or another. My personal experiences with the Urei are not too pretty, they pass and amplify any tiny little buzz and hum, and I hate those separate L/R tone controls. I have several friends with quite a few of them and they refuse to use them. Just laying up on a shelf waiting for someday I suppose. Several DJ’s I work with prefer the Rane because it has more features and is cleaner and more predictable.

I’ll stay with the Rane for now. Professional audio products, well made, I’ve been to Mukilteo and I’ll attest, their assembly line is stellar. Some have claimed that the MP2016 has a low output. Input and output specs are:

+ 20 dBu and + 26 dBu. This translates into 7.75 volts rms. and 15.45 volts rms. Typical headroom of 12 dB means that maximum continuous (i.e. reference) level should be no more than + 8 dBu. Typically using pro gear and feeding a + 4 dBu signal of 1.23 volts rms. the resultant headroom is 16 dB; plenty available for dance / pop and rock.

There’s no reason that this kind of output can’t drive anything you can connect to it.

I’ll agree with Mr. Fitlin that the Bozak and Urei consoles are worth more than the Rane. The Rane is still currently produced. Rane has made thousands of these units and sales aren’t waning. Maybe when they discontinue it, it too will become a sought after item, we’ll see.

Elliot, good to see you on several boards. If you want to hear the BASSMAXX B-ZERO's with the McCauley drivers, come to Webster Hall. We've recently had to cut back on the bass due to neighborhood complaints. HMMM. Never had complaints with 48 EV woofers in 16 boxes, now have problems with 10 woofers in 10 boxes.

Best regards,
Paul Bell
(917) 412-5781
paul@pbellsound.com
http://www.pbellsound.com

PS: Never mind Club Systems International Magazine saying I’m the hottest sound man in NYC. That should read THE TIREDEST!
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  #6  
Old 11-03-2003, 11:25 PM
mattytko mattytko is offline
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Paul how long have you been doing sound for? The 1620 BLOWS the 2016 away in every way shape and form. There is no headroom in the 2016 whatsoever and they are not durable. I have personally used the Crest mixer. and that thing has no output. Being a DJ for 17 years and a sound contractor for 15 years I have seen dj's spill drinks on a urei before and it kept going all night because it is sealed in the front. I recently got a call in the middle of the night because the 2016 shut down completly. Not to mention you have to replace the plastic knobs every six months if the mixer is used 5 nights a week. Lets not even get into this discussion. I understand that the 1620 is finnicky when it comes to setup in a system. But if you know how to ground the mixer and the rest of your system it can be very clean.
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  #7  
Old 11-04-2003, 12:52 AM
pbellsound pbellsound is offline
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Your experience will vary...

Dude,

Seems I’ve had a 2016 in Lotus more than three years and two at Blis more than two. The Lotus units are used every night, they never get powered down, no failures whatsoever. The Blis units are used three times a week, also no issues at all. I think the two at Webster Hall are some of the earliest ones built. Again no problems. I’ve never had any problems attaining more than ample gain from them. Certainly more than enough to overdrive the systems. Never even had to replace a knob. Aside from the Urei having knobs that lock on with allen screws, they’re plastic also. And the Urei has a sealed faceplate? Although I doubted it, I did just double check the one I have laying in my shop. No sealed faceplate here.

I remember back in the day when these things were new. Have I been around a few years? Just like you, yes. Don’t jump on me as what I say is opinion. Elliot asked and I offer these facts about these various mixers and my personal experiences over the years. Your experience will vary, please post them and Mr. Elliot will make his own judgments.

-PB
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  #8  
Old 11-04-2003, 02:00 AM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
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1620 Noisy ?

I use the urei 1620 in the system at Stereo in Montreal and we have zero noise in that room and we have the rane 2016 downstairs in the Stereo Bar which is the club in the basement of Stereo because the jocks downstairs like it so we use it there but not in the main room. The main room is all about the ultimate listening experience and Stereo is all that, The Ultimate listening experience.

We had a situation @ Stereo where this certain dj HAD to use the Rane 2016, So I installed the Rane in the sound system in the main room in Stereo and not only did the system in Stereo sound bad once the 2016 on that system but you heard all the flaws in the Rane, but the system also had NO DRIVE compared to the system with the UREI & the bass was thin and empty sounding as well with the Rane.

Now you know how the saying today is in the industry by all these sound techs and todays engineers with arogance is "ah the crowd cant hear the diff they cant tell this and that", like the public is a bunch of idiots or they know nothing about audio. This is what the industry thinks (Unlike Myself and a couple & i mean a couple of other guys i know in the industry, we know the people comming in, most of them do pay attention to audio and know audio. If that was the case that the people cant hear the differance then the Paradise Garage or Original Sound Factory or Twilo or Stereo cant be known to sound great cause the public cant hear it so they say, and the 4 clubs that i just mentioned couldnt have been known world wide cause OF THERE SOUND SYSTEMS CAUSE THE CROWD CANT HEAR THE DIFFERANCE), So the night that i installed the 2016 into the system in Stereo the crowd that came that night to Stereo complaned that night all night long whats wrong with the system it doesnt sound rt the room never sounds this bad wheres the bass wheres the level the dj isnt kickin it hard enough and when I explained that we tried a Rane 2016 which is a diff mixer than what we usually use, which is usually the Urei 1620 and its a completly diff mixer all together and they all said use the older urei mixer it sounds better.

So the rule at Stereo is, you play on what the club has and we dont change and sacrafice our sound quality for no dj because we have The Best sound system Period, & if you dont like playing on our Urei & our sound system then we are not the club for you and this goes for any dj no exceptions its all about the audio at Stereo and if you dont like the setup then play somewhere else no exceptions.

No isolaters, no pioneer boxes,No eqs per turntable,No filters, none of that cheaply made gear is used in our system in Stereo. Anything that will sacrafice the audio will not get used in Stereo, and in my opinion the Rane does infact sacrafice my audio in Stereo. At Twilo the Urei did not make any noise as well and we tried the Rane 2016 there aswell in fact Rane debuted the 2016 @ Twilo b4 they did at the show that year when it was first comming to be available and we told them about all the issues with this unit and when we plugged the Urei back into the system it sounded rt & in my opinion the sound went for the worse with the 2016 and it did not have the Drive to drive that system in Twilo either.

So i dont know what your doin wrong but when i use the Urei in any room ground noise or idle noise is not an issue.

Hey Paul you can fix a urei on sight or on a bench in a shop or @ home if you know how to fix and find the problem and have the Urei up and runnin in hours, how you gunna do that with the Rane and there surface mount technolgy and then tell your client he`s out that mixer for a few weeks because it needs to be sent out to Rane?

Also In David Morales studio I use the Urei and this is what he prefers to use and listen to & we have no noise issues and this is in a 1/4 of a million dollar studio, so if there was noise, there would be issues with his mix engineers when sampling from turntables or at idle because his studio gear which is VERY sensitive will pick these noises up in the sample or in the monitors. David owns about 6 Ureis and believe me if he didnt like the Urei for sound quality or idle/ground noise issues guess what the Urei would not be used and he can get any mixer he wants but he uses the urei there as well. I am JR Vasquez tech and he prefers the Urei over the Rane as well.

I did the sound recently for MTV and Britney Spears and we had tried her recordings thru the Rane on the house system and they did not like the sound of the rane so i told them we have a urei as well and they said to install it & even her engineers said to use the urei so we hooked the Urei up and the system sounded so much better I dont know what your doin wrong but trust me its not the Urei IT MUST BE YOU.
www.systemsbyshorty.com

Last edited by soundmanshorty : 11-04-2003 at 02:35 AM.
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  #9  
Old 11-04-2003, 02:02 AM
mattytko mattytko is offline
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I understand what you are saying paul. The sealed thing was a matter of speaking but i can tell you that the urei can handle a drink better than the rane . I am a Rane dealer and i install these mixers because most of my customers can't afford the allen and heath mixer. and the biggest problems i have with the 2016 is 1. Unfortunately alot of DJ's do not understand gain, so when the input clips even a little you can hear it in the sound system. thats because most of the djs do not know how to use the gain controls. 2. The booth output is really low. If you have an eq for your monitors you need to turn up the input gain on the eq just to get some headroom for the monitors 3. The urei knobs may be plastic also but at least you won't cut your hands on the edge of the knob like the 2016 knobs. The rane mixer has alot of potential they just need to work on some things. I was one of the dealers that had a prototype when it came out. I installed it in Avalon in boston one night when Jonathan Peters played. I took out the urei, BIG MISTAKE He ran that Mixer very hard and you could hear the pops and distortion coming out of that mixer and the processing on the amp rack wasn't even clipping. You can run a urei 10 and 10 and you will barely here the mixer working hard. If they just work on the gain problem and get rid of the gain controls and when you enable the expansion piece they should have it so the main eq on the mixer be bypassed, because why have double tone controls especially if idiot djs use it.And finally update the Plastic knobs and make the mixer modular and I think it would improve the mixer greatly. Personally I think the mp24z sounds better than the 2016. But i guess that is why we have fun debating

Last edited by mattytko : 11-04-2003 at 02:18 AM.
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2003, 02:13 AM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
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The Pots

on the Urei are sealed i think thats what you were talkin about and you are correct about the way that unit clips, try a big power house vocalist thru the mic channel of the rane and see how that mixer falls apart and it completly falls apart. Also i agree dbl eqs are really stupid and It will do more damage then good in everyway.Independent gains per ch is reall dumb as well most of these jocks dont really understand what the purpose of these input gains are really for and what to look for while adjusting them & it is to easy for you overdrive that mixer.

We had a 2016 at Splash in NYC that drifted from ch to ch and would not function properly at all and it just sounded really bad this system is used 7 days a week 12-14 hours a day and the mixer had to be replaced with a new 2016 and the first 2016 was only a year old. That would not have been the case with a urei it would still be in there workin if there was a urei in the system i know ureis that are 15 - 20 yrs old still workin today in clubs

Last edited by soundmanshorty : 11-04-2003 at 02:26 AM.
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  #11  
Old 11-04-2003, 02:33 AM
mattytko mattytko is offline
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I just recently this summer went to a club called The MIll Hill Club on Cape Cod. I dj'd down there in the summers of the 80's and that urei was used 10 hours a day 7 days a week. Guess what? The fucking mixer is still there and still working and has never been pulled from the console since it was installed in 82. Now thats a fucking mixer!!!!! And the pots aren't even noisy Looks like Bozak did something right in the beginning didn't they And urei took it to the next step.http://www.tkosound.com

Last edited by mattytko : 11-04-2003 at 02:40 AM.
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  #12  
Old 11-04-2003, 11:58 AM
jsd540 jsd540 is offline
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I own a Rane. 2016 I have used it for 3 years and it has not developed any noise on the pots, but it only gets about 16 hrs use a week.

My observations

1. Bass has no balls
2. Gain is easily clipped. ( yes, there is a popping sound that I never heard before that scared the crap out of me the first time I heard it )
3. The sound quality doesn't compare to either a urei a bozak, Period.

However

I enjoy some of the features, The fader, Seperate Eq's ( not filters just simple kills) and the the 4 phono cards and more than enough aux inputs.

I wanted features so I got the rane. I had no illusions of it even comeing close to the urei or bozak.
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  #13  
Old 11-04-2003, 01:32 PM
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daveg daveg is offline
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Unhappy rane mp2016

The Rane is a horrible piece of surface mount electronic cost cutting exercise with only thr decent Alps pots to write home about. The more I deal with electronics the more I have to laugh at this sort of gear, mine was the biggest waste of my money ever. Not only that I won't even be able to sell it for half what I paid for it on e-bay, £1275 new, seen one go for £500 on e-bay UK.

Paul Bell Quote:+ 20 dBu and + 26 dBu. This translates into 7.75 volts rms. and 15.45 volts rms. Typical headroom of 12 dB means that maximum continuous (i.e. reference) level should be no more than + 8 dBu. Typically using pro gear and feeding a + 4 dBu signal of 1.23 volts rms. the resultant headroom is 16 dB; plenty available for dance / pop and rock.

Those spec are bullshit, I've measured mine on a scope and by 7.75v you will have a massive spike and severe clipping.

Paul Bell Quote:I’ll agree with Mr. Fitlin that the Bozak and Urei consoles are worth more than the Rane. The Rane is still currently produced. Rane has made thousands of these units and sales aren’t waning. Maybe when they discontinue it, it too will become a sought after item, we’ll see.

I doubt it Paul
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  #14  
Old 11-04-2003, 02:33 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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This program contains adult language and violence, veiwer discretion advised

See what DaveG says about the specs being meaningless? Well, to be blunt they are! At least with this particular mixer, because regardless of what the specs say, IT DOESNT SOUND GOOD! And the urei definitely isnt noisy as you state! But, your system will require more care in setup to achieve spectacular results! However, you just come off the RCA house outputs and really, its pretty plug N play!

Paul, when something goes wrong with the Rane 2016, and it does happen, what will you tell Elliot when you have to send it back to Rane as all 2016,s have to be sent back to Rane if they require electronic work. That surface mount technology, you cant even change a stinky capacitor! not to mention Elliot would be out of a mixer for 3 to 4 weeks!

PBellsound! Always there to contradict anything I happen to say! Well, the way I see it is Im so fucking confident that Elliot would love the Urei, providing he gets one from someone reputable like MarioG, thats electronically up to snuff, that IF he didnt like the mixer I would buy it off him for what he paid! ( Providing its from someone reputable like Mario ) Will you offer the same deal? I, unlike you, do not earn money selling sound equipment, and doing installs! I, when asked, tell people what I think sounds good, and I dont earn ten fucking cents off what I tell people! YOU, however, do this for a living, a telling him the Rane 2016 is a better sounding piece means Mr. Thompson could potentially be a prospective client and sale for you! You agree Ureis are hard and expensive to come by, and Rane is made as we speak, and you are in buisiness to sell gear! I say let Elliots ears decide what he likes better, as your ears will never lie to you, but a salesperson always will!

As for the Urei being state of the art for the period it was issued and measuring poorly, thats bullshit! It sounds as good today as it did then, if it didnt people wouldnt want them and be willing to pay the inflated prices due to scarcity and collectibility, as well as its sound quality! Mr. Bell, have you bothered to read the other posts? Will you ever learn to listen to what people say? I have always felt people have valid opinions and do hear differences between components and can discern what they like and dont like! The measurements alone do not tell the whole story! There are MANY components that measure as close to theoretical perfection, yet sound poor. And there are many components that measure below what AUDIO INDUSTRIES consider pefect or correct, and yet, make amazing music sound! Like Single Ended Triode amplifiers. Or better yet, go read the post from EQSmock about the White 4100A equalizer he just got! They are clean, precise, and sound terrific. Better to my ears than any varicurve or McCauley drive! again these are definitely my opinions, and you have your right to yours as well. But IF Im so wrong, why do people like what I recommend so much?

Paul, if using the Rane is what you spec out for your jobs, thats fine, but whaen you denounce the Urei as nothing more than collectible because its no longer available, well, your telling everybody here they arent hearing what they hear! Guess what dude? They DO know what they are hearing! And they know what they like better than YOU know what they like!

As for reliability, the urei is a tank and rarely breaks! If you have a bad, scratchy pot, it can easily be changed! If you have a capacitor thats leaky, it too can be easily changed! Shit, the urei is ine the most easily serviceable units! Really! and the only thing that really gets worn down from use is in fact the pots. Other than this, They hold up great!

If Mr. Thompson should decide to seek out a Urei 1620, of course he should look for a unit thats in good cosmetic shape as well as in working condition, and one that came out of someones personal collection, or just buy from Mario.

But also, as i already said, YOU are a audio gear seller! It benefits you to recommend Rane because you sell Rane! I only sell rides on the Bumper Cars, and am willing to share my knowledge that Ive accumulated over the last 30 years, because I love sound and music. Sometimes I would be better off keeping my mouth shut, but when they ask me how can I get mine to sound like yours, I cant help it, I answer them!

I wish a company WOULD come out with a mixer that sounded good, because it would be much less expensive, and easier to get.BUT until someone puts out something that I really do like, Im sticking with what I know works, and sound the way I want it to!

And PLEASE Paul, no more phone calls to tell me how similar our tastes in sound are!
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Last edited by clubman5 : 11-04-2003 at 02:35 PM.
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  #15  
Old 11-04-2003, 03:36 PM
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Specs or colouration aside my references are from well recorded vinyl using what I and my friends view as the best gear available and affordable. I would not slate a piece of gear for being uncoloured or neutral sounding if the Rane was only that. I critize gear if it causes my references to sound screetchy in the mid, obscure detail, lack dynamics depth and stereo image. I use a earlier Rane preamp as a pure volume control at present and it has superior sound quality to the mp 2016 which sits unused in a unused rack. I would not dream of using it for home mixing or conecting it to any system of mine due to sound quality issues. Although I don't believe the quality comes up to Urei gear but consider it to be built to a price albeit very over priced in the UK.

Last edited by daveg : 11-04-2003 at 06:14 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-04-2003, 04:26 PM
jmark jmark is offline
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The only condition under which I've heard objectionable noise levels from a Urei is when someone operates the input faders really low, and cranks up the master gain. I know this sounds utterly retarded to anyone who knows how to properly operate a mixer, but I've seen this more than once.

If you look at the schematics for the Urei and the Rane, the reasons for the Rane not sounding the same are obvious: there are about four times the number of opamps between any given input and the output on the Rane, and many more coupling capacitors. Aside from the phono or mic preamps, there's no active circuitry in the Urei until the summing amp. The opamp types are also different...the Urei uses FET types (TL084's) which have some of the sonic characteristics of tubes.

The output stages have major differences...the Rane uses opamps in "active-balanced" configuration, the Urei uses a high-current discrete transistor "booster" stage followed by transformers.
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  #17  
Old 11-04-2003, 04:49 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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INDEED!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by jmark
The only condition under which I've heard objectionable noise levels from a Urei is when someone operates the input faders really low, and cranks up the master gain. I know this sounds utterly retarded to anyone who knows how to properly operate a mixer, but I've seen this more than once.

If you look at the schematics for the Urei and the Rane, the reasons for the Rane not sounding the same are obvious: there are about four times the number of opamps between any given input and the output on the Rane, and many more coupling capacitors. Aside from the phono or mic preamps, there's no active circuitry in the Urei until the summing amp. The opamp types are also different...the Urei uses FET types (TL084's) which have some of the sonic characteristics of tubes.

The output stages have major differences...the Rane uses opamps in "active-balanced" configuration, the Urei uses a high-current discrete transistor "booster" stage followed by transformers.
Do you see all of this Paul? And between daveG and JMark they are 100% correct, and these are the people the Audio companies and installers think they are fooling! And there are many more of "US" out there as well!

JMark is right on about Field Effect Transistors ( FET,s )sounding similar to tubes! Triode tubes to be exact! This is exactly why FET,s are popular. They sound good!

DaveG states Rane gear provides him with screechy sounding mids! I concur! And when the Rane clips, its nasty sounding.

But what do we know?

We listen, thats how we know!

Paul, even though you are likely to spend double for the urei what you would for the Rane, the Urei is a better investment! Youll be happy with its sound, so you wont have to have a Rane you cant sell sitting on a shelf doing nothing, while you spend money again, getting a Urei! And should you want to sell the Urei , it holds its value!

And the 1620 isnt the only Urei piece thats considered great sounding and very valuable! What about all those even older 1176 limiters, and LA 2A compressors? Some of the MOST sought after components ever made! Ahh, but what do those recording engineers know?

Oh, about Rane being succesful with the 2016, to date they have sold 4.5 million dollars worth of 2016,s! But even though sales are not waning, why do so many almost NEW Rane 2016 mixers keep showing up for sale on the used market?

As for your buddy who has several urei,s sitting on the shelf waiting for someday? I dont think so! IF you have these and have no use for them, they fetch handsome money on the open market. So, in effect "someday" has already arrived, and has been here for a considerable length of time already!
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  #18  
Old 11-04-2003, 06:27 PM
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daveg daveg is offline
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beer

Beer spilage

If you are going to be pouring beer into mixers the Urei is likely to drain itself out quicker than the Rane due to its vertical input boards. The Rane has a two main horizontal boards taking up the space in most of the chassis which might fill up and flood quicker

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Old 11-04-2003, 07:53 PM
marcellrivera marcellrivera is offline
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Urei, Bozak, Rane

Elliot, looks like you opened up a whole can of worms with that
question! I am new to the board but I have a Bozak and a Urei and many of my frieds have Bozaks
Ureis AND Rane's. If you are looking for Hi Fidelity Sound, listen
to the old school anaologue junkies, the masses and me. Go with a Bozak or a Urei. If you Really, really have to have separate eqs on each channel like many djs, buy 3 richard long isolators and run them through 3 very high quality phono pre-amps. This may get a little pricey though. As a dj, if you know your songs and know how to really lace em together, don't even worry about eq isolators. The Urei and Bozak are as smooth as 'butta' and you the mixes will sound really, really good if done right. I don't know what it is about them dam mixers! We unfortunately have a Rane 2016 hook up in our club (www.nulifesf.com) and the owner has this f#cked up compressor connected to the main system. We would love to bring in either a Bozak or a Urei but are gonna need some technical advise on how to completely bypass that "thing". Hopefully very soon as we will have Ron Trent and Frankie Feliciano this month! Anyhow, go out and by a Urei or Bozak from Mario! You will fall in love with the thing and have that Christmas morning-new toy-top notch product feeling for ever! Happy bidding!!
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  #20  
Old 11-04-2003, 08:00 PM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
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Well your

totally correct about the mixer comment but the RLA units are x-overs not issolaters and they will not work in the phono style configuration per chanel even if he wanted to use RLA`s like this it is not possible
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  #21  
Old 11-04-2003, 08:03 PM
marcellrivera marcellrivera is offline
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RLA

I guess he will have to use the Vestax DCR's. What would you suggest
if someone really had to have individual eq's with a Bozak or Urei?
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  #22  
Old 11-04-2003, 08:07 PM
jmark jmark is offline
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Re: RLA

Quote:
Originally posted by marcellrivera
I guess he will have to use the Vestax DCR's. What would you suggest
if someone really had to have individual eq's with a Bozak or Urei?


The Elektrix EQ/Killers definitely sound better than the Vestax units, the problems are 1) finding them, since they've been discontinued for a couple years, and 2) finding a rev. 2 unit, since the earlier units had a problem with developing oscillation.
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  #23  
Old 11-04-2003, 08:12 PM
djmariog djmariog is offline
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Hello All

I think we all went threw this topic several times. I had one the first prototypes of the rane 2016 and I was so excited about what a great looking mixer (looking) not sounding. Rane had purchased a urei 1620 from me and our agreemnet was I would get one of the first mixers released. What a disappointment in sound. There was no gain , no bottom end and how easy to distort the output. I had sent it back to rane 8 times & each time I did get a new unit different serial # , but nothing changed. I finally gave up and traded it for a urei mixer. I would never recommend this unit to anyone. We also know that the mixer is built correct on paper but that does not mean that it sounds great. Lets look at the rla 3000 - is this correct on paper, no - does it sound amazing, yes. I had heard from many techs why would you want that piece of crap. We all have our oppions. Paul, any day you have a urei or a bozak mixer even if they are scrap metal broken blown from the bottom of the hudson river I will be very happy to trade you for a new rane 2016. Paul you had the subwoofer shootout. Lets put the mixers to the test any time. I'm sure we will have a great turn out for this. Lets give it 2 months. You find the place. I will bring a new UREI 1620 AND A NEW BOZAK DLBS AND A NEW RANE 2016 NO MODS TO ANY OF THESE UNITS. This would be a great time to meet all the faces behind this great site , and most of all the mixers will speak for themselves.

Mario G.

Last edited by djmariog : 11-04-2003 at 08:35 PM.
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  #24  
Old 11-04-2003, 08:45 PM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
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the shootout

I dont think that Paul would be willing to do that cause as Paul states the Urei and the Bozak are noisy, so i dowbt that he would into doin this, and paul claims the urei and the bozak are not as clean as the Rane as well, Paul also states the Rane has all this output it can drive anything today, but we all know different, this unit has NO DRIVE. It seems that paul is the only one that claims this. So why would Paul want to use one of these noisy old mixers that only seem to be noisy in one of his sound systems, because no other system ive seen or heard with the 1620 in all these years of clubing or djing or installing/designing systems has had noise issues or ground noise issues. So why would Paul wanna use one of these old mixers that are so bad in spec and a piece that all his engineer friends say is so bad that they are worthless by todays standards.

I mean Paul says the urei and the bozak were state of the art for the period they were issued back in the day but now there just paper weights that are only good for sitting on a shelf or a bench to collect dust. So why would Paul want to put a Urei or a bozak in one of his systems when The Rane is so far superior in every way as Paul States lol. So i dont think you`ll see a shoot out anytime soon which we no diff from what Paul states. It seems like everything Paul states that he thinks works rt is the complete opposite in the real world when it comes to audio installations.

The fact & reality is that If this shootout did go on the Urei and the Bozak would just embarass the Rane unit hands down. I think you bit off a piece that you cant chew on this thread mr PBell, instead of posting and talkin at people like they are dummies on this board and your the smartest tech on this board, maybe you need to realise that we are all inteligent on this board and speak with people instead of trying to be the man with all the answers and talk at people.
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Last edited by soundmanshorty : 11-04-2003 at 11:26 PM.
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  #25  
Old 11-04-2003, 11:14 PM
drc24 drc24 is offline
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Re: Urei, Bozak, Rane

Quote:
Originally posted by marcellrivera
As a dj, if you know your songs and know how to really lace em together, don't even worry about eq isolators.
Not to throw more fuel into the fire, but what about younger folks like me who grew up just accepting per-channel EQs as normal? I understand that a good mix can be done without EQs, but for many of the new breed of DJs, the extra EQs are simply a standard feature, like a headphone cue.

Essentially, in your eyes (not asking anyone specific here), does sound quality take precedence over DJ technique, even if the technique is common practice? I understand what Shorty's doing in Stereo, but is it better to have poor sound and a DJ who can do everything he wants, or good sound with a limited DJ?

I know many of you are going to come back with "but if a DJ is good, he doesn't need EQs to mix well," and I understand that, but if my DJ performance is significantly enhanced by my ability to use per-channel EQs, then what happens? What happens if Richie Hawtin, who depends on his modified A&H Xone 64, gets booked at Stereo? His entire performance depends on that mixer and the noisy effects he uses...

One more thing: what is your baseline for "good sound?" I think Mr. Bell may be merely operating under a different standard than the rest of you. If you believe that the Urei and Bozak are the mixers that sound the absolute best, than anything that sounds different, whether it's "good" or not, is not going to be liked by you guys, correct?

What I'm trying to say is that for many people outside of this community, the 2016 is the best mixer out there, it is the standard for quality. For some, that lack of bass isn't a "lack of bass," that's what they think of as high quality sound.

Now that probably has to do with the fact that we never had the chance to listen to a high quality system from back in the day. But is it possible that the 70's and 80's sound that everyone loves here isn't the "best" for some listeners today? Is it possible that some raver, who's used to listening to booming, low quality systems, could walk into Stereo, and not be blown away by the sound, because he's used to something different (even if it's low quality)?

Basically, I'm wondering if all the 2016 hatred has to do with its low-quality construction, or its sonic differences from the Urei and Bozak. I know you may say they're the same thing, but just think that for some people out there, the 2016 is "good sound."
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