Wave Music Home
ReleasesCommunityYour OrderWave Music
ArtistsEventsDJ MixesShop

Wave Music Home


Home
About Us
Labels
Distributed Labels
Links




Search


Adv. Search



Subscribe


Email






Go Back   Wave Music Community Board > Tech Talk for Gearheads

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #51  
Old 09-12-2011, 04:16 PM
Black Science Black Science is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by georget
I see more djs playing CDs than DVS and I hardly see anyone playing wax unless they are doing an old school set.

Guess it depends on your area, but around here DVS is huge (both SSL and TSP). Now I will say that CDJs are more popular as controllers for DVS (via timecode or HID), but using them as actual real CD players is becoming much less frequent. I find most people are just sick and tired of all the hassles that come with CDs and want to enjoy all the benefits of DVS that trump them.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 09-12-2011, 04:23 PM
georget georget is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Chicago, Il
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Science
That's another beautiful thing about SSL in that if/when a deck should ever go down (either TT or CDJ), all you need to do is engage the instant doubles feature within the SSL GUI and carry on performing two virtual deck mixing using just one physical deck as a timecode controller. This wonderful feature has saved me a few of times over the years — usually when a stylus bites the dust in the middle of a heated mix.

Yeah, that's actually pretty cool. I had a turntable acting up. So I used the other deck. People that cant afford two tables, could get sl2 plus one deck and they are set for the home setup. If you are only mixing two tracks and are not scratching on two tables, this actually makes the most sense.

Last edited by georget : 09-12-2011 at 04:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 09-12-2011, 04:27 PM
georget georget is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Chicago, Il
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Science
Guess it depends on your area, but around here DVS is huge (both SSL and TSP). Now I will say that CDJs are more popular as controllers for DVS (via timecode or HID), but using them as actual real CD players is becoming much less frequent. I find most people are just sick and tired of all the hassles that come with CDs and want to enjoy all the benefits of DVS that trump them.

Thats the sad part. I wished djs were using more DVS with turntables. And when i say DVS, i mean with turntables, not HID, not CDJs with timecode. More people are using Pioneer cd players (cd, dvd, thumbdrive, hid). Period and I personally dislike the CDJ-2000 lol.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 09-12-2011, 04:50 PM
Black Science Black Science is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by georget
Thats the sad part. I wished djs were using more DVS with turntables. And when i say DVS, i mean with turntables, not HID, not CDJs with timecode. More people are using Pioneer cd players (cd, dvd, thumbdrive, hid). Period and I personally dislike the CDJ-2000 lol.

I agree. That's kinda the whole point of a DVS (we get to have our cake and eat it to ;-). TTs + SSL is always my numero uno choice whenever/where ever possible. Not only because it's the funnest (and highly tactile), but also because I still purchase and playout tons of real vinyl. This makes for a very elegant, seamless workflow between analog and digital. CDJs as controllers is my fallback when/where TTs sadly aren't part of the setup. It gets the job done but it's not nearly as enjoyable as timecode on TTs. CDJ decks have always felt so sterile and lifeless to me. I am also recently using Serato ITCH + Novation Twitch as my Plan B (actually it would be Plan C I guess lol) backup tool for dreaded situations when/where I arrive at some crazy gig where TTs and CDJs are both suspect or FUBAR so I can basically just say to the idiot promoter "just give me an open line into your sound system so I can plug in and go to work".

Last edited by Black Science : 09-12-2011 at 05:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 09-12-2011, 10:11 PM
georget georget is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Chicago, Il
Posts: 129
That was a typo. Replace cds with cdjs. CDJ-400/900/1000/2000 do get used more than 1200s these days to control DVS software. There are more djs using DVS than anything else. The second most popular format is CDs (CD-R for those who cant afford laptops) and last is wax.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 09-13-2011, 05:15 AM
shihp001 shihp001 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 252
I guess its personal preference.

I preferred to use cdjs as the controller for Serato unless I am setting up for hiphop djs. In my case, I have turntables, cdjs, and SL3 box for the club. I have a analog sound system and I like to keep the turntables as the pure analog source. I felt the "thru" on the SL box is really not 100% pure thru, its somehow coloring the source when I play a real vinyl.

Plus my turntables are sitting on the suspension system, it really doesn't make any sense for my djs to deal with it; gotta be real light handed, how fun is that! Plus it wears the stylus for no obvious reason.

I must say using turntables to control Serato does provide a great image as the turntables still rules like the old days!

Just my 2 cents...
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 09-13-2011, 02:42 PM
jnkarrik jnkarrik is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 568
[quote=shihp001]I guess its personal preference.
Plus it wears the stylus for no obvious reason.
QUOTE]

Agreed.

I swap out my nice Grados for some cheapish Shure carts when I am exclusively using Traktor.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 09-16-2011, 03:14 AM
broad broad is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by der geile ami
you cant be serious. A turntable is a somewhat sensitive mechanical device operated by end users in an insecure environment. The investment of a few hundred bucks is laughable compared to everything else a club or large system owner has to pa for. One can get by running a system in mono, or losing a sub, but losing half of your sources is a party killer.

For concerts, providers routinely have a spare mixer sitting in the truck. PLenty of systems include backup processing. Every club I've worked for had more than 2 decks in the building. Plenty of hte lcubs ive worked for also have a spare mixer, should a live act need one (djm800 is the current favorite, even if system mixer is a a&h) or if main mixer goes down. Come to think of it, the better clubs ive worked for also had options to swap out amps should something happen, and reserve drivers, too. it is not a matter of having shitty gear, but providing unstoppable service to the patrons.

+1. cant think of one serious club ive ever involved with that didnt have an extra one of everything important (deck, mixer, cdj, stylus etc) in the office. as was mentioned, think about what an extra deck costs vs what 500 people paid cover to get in...its minuscule in comparison.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 09-16-2011, 10:49 PM
Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Thompson

A club owner or anyone who owns a large DJ sound system is not going to buy a brand new spare turntable for the sake of maybe using it. There are other components within the chain that are susceptible to damage as well.


Unless, the club owner sees a trend of a component constantly getting damaged by the DJs and/or malfunctioning it is not cost effective to buy backup components on every piece of equipment unless, he or she plans to rent them out.

Best Regards,


Quote:
Originally Posted by der geile ami
you cant be serious. A turntable is a somewhat sensitive mechanical device operated by end users in an insecure environment. The investment of a few hundred bucks is laughable compared to everything else a club or large system owner has to pa for. One can get by running a system in mono, or losing a sub, but losing half of your sources is a party killer.

As I said in my previous post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Thompson
Unless, the club owner sees a trend of a component constantly getting damaged by the DJs and/or malfunctioning it is not cost effective to buy backup components on every piece of equipment unless, he or she plans to rent them out.

Why would you highlight one part of the paragraph and disregard the other?

Quote:
Originally Posted by der geile ami
For concerts, providers routinely have a spare mixer sitting in the truck. PLenty of systems include backup processing. Every club I've worked for had more than 2 decks in the building. Plenty of hte lcubs ive worked for also have a spare mixer, should a live act need one (djm800 is the current favorite, even if system mixer is a a&h) or if main mixer goes down. Come to think of it, the better clubs ive worked for also had options to swap out amps should something happen, and reserve drivers, too. it is not a matter of having shitty gear, but providing unstoppable service to the patrons.

Which goes back to what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Thompson
Unless, the club owner sees a trend of a component constantly getting damaged by the DJs and/or malfunctioning it is not cost effective to buy backup components on every piece of equipment unless, he or she plans to rent them out.


Now I’ve been providing sound for the past 17 years for all types of events and I can count on one hand the amount of times a component broke due to the unprofessional user. Possibly I work with users that respect other people’s equipment why I haven’t encounter the problems you are experiencing. You name it I’ve provided sound for it.

I will add that I am technically inclined so amps, loudspeakers, processors and, cables are thoroughly examined a minimum of twice a year (quick checks before and after every event) by yours truly so I don’t experience failures that require me to buy equipment as backup for the sake that something might break.

If we are talking something as simplistic as a needle, yes it is good to have replacements. However, a brand new turntable?

Clearly your clients differ than mine why a replacement turntable is necessary on the premises.

I know a few club owners (when Turntables were the only means for DJs to play music) would not offer cartridges/headphones and, told the DJs to bring their own for they become tired of buying replacements. But as I said in my previous post, the DJ has to do something idiotic to break a Technics 1200.




Best Regards,
__________________
Elliot Thompson

Last edited by Elliot Thompson : 09-16-2011 at 11:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 09-17-2011, 03:13 AM
broad broad is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
Quote:
I know a few club owners (when Turntables were the only means for DJs to play music) would not offer cartridges/headphones and, told the DJs to bring their own for they become tired of buying replacements. But as I said in my previous post, the DJ has to do something idiotic to break a Technics 1200.

how'd that sound when people were just swapping out styluses willy nilly?
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 09-17-2011, 06:26 AM
Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by broad
how'd that sound when people were just swapping out styluses willy nilly?

The last time I checked, unfastening the headshell off the tone arm will not cause the Turntable to get damaged to the point it needs to be replaced.

All Technics "S Arm" turntables offer two screws residing under the tonearm just below the ring that should be checked time to time to make sure the headshell is properly aligned.

So unless you can tell me how attaching a headshell on a turntable arm can cause damage to the point that it will not play, that will require a brand new turntable it may be best to not debate the mechanics of the Technics 1200

Best Regards,
__________________
Elliot Thompson

Last edited by Elliot Thompson : 09-17-2011 at 06:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 09-17-2011, 08:10 PM
shihp001 shihp001 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 252
My turntables never break on me in the past 6 years. I can see it happens with say bad cables, water damage, or beat up pitch control, but it never happen to me.

I do have replacement speaker drivers, an extra sub bass amp, and a back up original Urei mixer. Original Urei does break down a lot for some reason, never replace speaker driver although the booth monitor gets blown often.

I agreed that its a must to have back up CDJs!
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 09-18-2011, 06:55 PM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: berlin
Posts: 820
Elliot, you can call out the caliber of my clientèle all you want, but a real world example is having to replace a turntable mid party in front of thousands with an a-list dj over ten years ago. That you work with such high profile and professional performers, surely you would understand when some have some insecurities and that the relatively simple act of swapping a deck puts their mind at ease if they are not having their best night, perceived or otherwise.

Let's say you personally service all of your gear on a regular basis. An inexperienced technician could still manage to damage the earthing cable between removing it from the road case (oh and how many times the road case is still the original shipping box) and connecting it to the mixer. Maybe it gets moved by a performer after initial installation. Shit can happen.

Maybe you've heard of the love parade. It drew up to hundreds of thousands to a couple million per event in its run. I've used rental material from many of the companies which serviced those trucks, and I've still received turntables which needed to be swapped mid gig. Maybe the pitch sontrol felt funny at a certain spot. Maybe the speed wavered. Maybe the performer saw the wrong color m&m's backstage and just wanted to be reassured that there was a backup.

I salute you if you've never worked an event where the audience has never been spilling distance to the performer. Do your performers also never overdrive the mixer?

I didn't ignore anything in your post, if only because no event can afford to have a source device like a turntable go down without a backup. Apologies if I am repeating myself, but do you keep a spare tire in your trunk?
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 09-19-2011, 09:06 PM
John-Martin John-Martin is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 176
Let's get this back on topic guys. Start a new thread if you want to keep discussing installer's horror stories.
__________________
Rane 2016S, CDJ-200s, Traktor Scratch Pro, Sony MDR-7506, Fostex PM 0.5 monitors.


My SoundCloud
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 09-20-2011, 01:25 AM
Black Science Black Science is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 75
As I said earlier, I use both SSL and TSP, but there are a few things SSL currently does that TSP doesn't which IMO trumps TSP for my personal use and keeps me rooted in the SSL camp.

• Dual USB (via SL4)
• Ableton Live integration (via The Bridge)
• Stackable waveforms aligned on single playhead
• Larger waveforms, increased time viewing
• Multiple, advanced artwork grid options
• Free updates

Also, when bouncing over to ITCH, the loop/sampler decks all have key lock (Traktor unfortunately does not).

Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 09-20-2011, 07:18 AM
georget georget is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Chicago, Il
Posts: 129
Serato just needs a control signal above 2kHz and then it will be better than TP2
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 09-20-2011, 08:41 AM
Black Science Black Science is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by georget
Serato just needs a control signal above 2kHz and then it will be better than TP2

Curious, how so? I've found no distinguishable difference between SSL's 1kHz timecode and TSP's 2kHz timecode in regards to actual real world performance despite each other's claims of superiority in this area.

Last edited by Black Science : 09-20-2011 at 10:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 10-04-2011, 02:26 AM
NAVDEEP NAVDEEP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 82
HELP !! I just recently installed traktor pro 2 using a macbook pro with 2 technics 2 technics cd players . When I load my tracks onto the decks A,B and put the needle on the time code vinyl it registers with the scope view I get volume also the platter spins on the traktor deck but my track does not play the track wave does not move I can only play the track when I hit the manual play button . Also there is no turntable icon on the bottom of each traktor deck A,B which I have seen on youtube on other peoples screen shots . Anyone have any Idea why ??????
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 10-04-2011, 02:27 AM
NAVDEEP NAVDEEP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 82
Also by the way there is a key lock in traktor pro 2
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 10-04-2011, 03:27 AM
atf104 atf104 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 588
Send a message via AIM to atf104
Just made a new dj mix with my TSP2 setup (X1) piped through my Urei. After my brief stint with SSL, my personal opinion now is SSL is just really for hiphop "scratchers" at this point. The only thing cool is the dual-usb's, but besides that, the interface is dated and the only people I know using SSL are hip-hop guys. Almost all the house/techno guys are either playing CD's or TSP, most syncing as well. What's really cool in TSP is you can run the new 8-channel MOTU interface. I've heard a few people do it and the fidelity is just off the hook beyond anything I've heard out there.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 10-04-2011, 05:31 AM
Laurin Laurin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Science
Also, when bouncing over to ITCH, the loop/sampler decks all have key lock (Traktor unfortunately does not).

With the new update it does, just to keep the infos updated.
__________________
Facebook
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 10-04-2011, 09:16 AM
georget georget is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Chicago, Il
Posts: 129
A lot of users have been having lots of problems with SSL 2.3 and video. Those days for which SSL was known for it's reliability are gone.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 10-04-2011, 09:50 AM
jnkarrik jnkarrik is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAVDEEP
HELP !! I just recently installed traktor pro 2 using a macbook pro with 2 technics 2 technics cd players . When I load my tracks onto the decks A,B and put the needle on the time code vinyl it registers with the scope view I get volume also the platter spins on the traktor deck but my track does not play the track wave does not move I can only play the track when I hit the manual play button . Also there is no turntable icon on the bottom of each traktor deck A,B which I have seen on youtube on other peoples screen shots . Anyone have any Idea why ??????

I had a similar problem recently with Traktor Scratch Pro - not sure how similar Traktor Pro 2 is, but this may work for you.

Directly beneath the big deck letters A and B is a small down arrow that opens a drop down menu. Click that and then select Scratch Control.

Hope that helps.

<edit> It appears that NI did away with the arrow. Maybe try clicking on the deck letter itself to see if it opens a menu....?

Last edited by jnkarrik : 10-04-2011 at 10:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 10-04-2011, 02:45 PM
rs_ rs_ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 226
In the working realm SSL is the standard. Look at 20 DJ riders and I bet that 15-16 of them specify SSL. "Serato" has basically become a synonym for DVS, like "Fender Bass" used to be for electric bass.

TSP is more feature-rich and configurable and so it appeals to "hackers" and "technical connoisseurs" who are also more likely to spend a lot of time posting on the internet. I suspect that the perception of TSP's real-world popularity is artificially high in the internet forum community because of this tendency.

If my full-time job was being the chief engineer of a big club or radio station and my job depended on uptime, choosing SSL would be a no-brainer just because of the reduced amount of variables and time-tested performance.

That's not to say that TSP isn't great or that it doesn't have better features.
But, at any rate, there's just no comparison in the real-world professional user base size, and I think that comes down to simplicity and robustness (recent glitches notwithstanding.)

rs
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 10-04-2011, 05:54 PM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: berlin
Posts: 820
Quote:
Originally Posted by rs_
In the working realm SSL is the standard. Look at 20 DJ riders and I bet that 15-16 of them specify SSL. "Serato" has basically become a synonym for DVS, like "Fender Bass" used to be for electric bass.

TSP is more feature-rich and configurable and so it appeals to "hackers" and "technical connoisseurs" who are also more likely to spend a lot of time posting on the internet. I suspect that the perception of TSP's real-world popularity is artificially high in the internet forum community because of this tendency.

If my full-time job was being the chief engineer of a big club or radio station and my job depended on uptime, choosing SSL would be a no-brainer just because of the reduced amount of variables and time-tested performance.

That's not to say that TSP isn't great or that it doesn't have better features.
But, at any rate, there's just no comparison in the real-world professional user base size, and I think that comes down to simplicity and robustness (recent glitches notwithstanding.)

rs


there may in fact be more ssl users out there, as hip hop is more popular than edm, but i bet i could contact the techs of all the big clubs in my market and ask when they last saw the rane logo in their booth and many might not even heard of rane. They make great gear, but europe is fairly dominated by other manfacturers
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.0.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2006 Wave Music


© Wave Entertainment Group, Inc.