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  #76  
Old 10-04-2011, 08:26 PM
georget georget is offline
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Traktor, Pioneer, and A&H dominate the European market. It appears also that the biggest djs choose Traktor for DVS. It is only in the US that SSL and Rane are popular and SSL appears to be more popular among the regular joe djs and no name djs. Popularity of Serato in the US may begin to die out if Serato does not begin to fix the bugs in their software soon.

Last edited by georget : 10-04-2011 at 08:54 PM.
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  #77  
Old 10-07-2011, 04:37 PM
Black Science Black Science is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georget
A lot of users have been having lots of problems with SSL 2.3 and video. Those days for which SSL was known for it's reliability are gone.


Possibly for video users (which I'm not one of them), but can vouch for SSL's reliability (including 2.3) as a pure DVS. Been using SSL heavily in pro applications since 2005 and to this day have not had a single problem, not even so much as a hiccup. Very comfortable with its reliability and stake my rep on it nearly every weekend at gigs.
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  #78  
Old 10-07-2011, 04:39 PM
Black Science Black Science is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Science
As I said earlier, I use both SSL and TSP, but there are a few things SSL currently does that TSP doesn't which IMO trumps TSP for my personal use and keeps me rooted in the SSL camp.

• Dual USB (via SL4)
• Ableton Live integration (via The Bridge)
• Stackable waveforms aligned on single playhead
• Larger waveforms, increased time viewing
• Multiple, advanced artwork grid options
• Free updates

Also, when bouncing over to ITCH, the loop/sampler decks all have key lock (Traktor unfortunately does not).



Quote:
Originally Posted by NAVDEEP
Also by the way there is a key lock in traktor pro 2


Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurin
With the new update it does, just to keep the infos updated.

Oh, cool! I found TSP2's loop decks practically useless because they had not received keylock prior to now. Thanks for the heads up on that update.

Last edited by Black Science : 10-07-2011 at 04:41 PM.
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  #79  
Old 10-11-2011, 01:24 AM
atf104 atf104 is offline
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My latest dj mix, made with Traktor SP2.

http://soundcloud.com/adamfreemer/ad...er-october2011
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  #80  
Old 11-03-2011, 04:20 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Just finished some tests with rightmark doing just in-situ digital recordings to see how much processing is going on.

They all wreaked havoc with the phasing of frequencies and between channels.

Mixxx had the least phasing distortion, but had several frequency problems and was highly intolerant of anything except very attenuated signals. You need to keep the auto gain and normalization on as even slightly below clipping the summation processing produces distortion.

Torq 2, Traktor, and VDJ are all perfectly flat.

Torq THD & IMD distortion was overall closer to the original signal (that RMAA can detect, which isn't very comprehensive). But it had the worst of the phasing distortion according to the graphs. Really bad. This might account for some of the sound character it has. It sounds heavily processed, like "Car Mode" on a Disk Man is turned on. Its compressors sound very aggressive and there may even be some resolution/data compression occurring. I'm not sure if recording internally is bypassing those.

Traktor 2 Pro has really improved its sound. Not only does it make great stuff sound good, but poor quality rips don't sound as bad as they used to. I remember Traktor one having the best sound for good quality wavs, but was intolerant of poor stuff. Not so with 2. The phasing distortion here is a little inferior to VDJ 7. Traktor showed one or two mid-level (in volume) midrange intermod spikes and some low-level odd-order & repeated harmonic distortion spikes in the highs. None of the other software produced repeated-order harmonic spikes in any of the tests, though Traktor's systemic ones in the highs were low down in the floor. Still, you have to remember this is only processing. So it's cumulative with whatever the music already has, plus the DA conversion.

Virtual DJ 7 has about as much distortion as Traktor, though its THD and intermod issues are in different spots than Traktor. VDJ's issues were around the very large modulation tests, where spurious distortion artifacts congregated around the original spikes. It also has the best phasing distortion of the three pay softwares I tested. Imperfect, but the channel match is particularly good with the phase distortion that is present, though not as good as Mixxx's. It sounds thinner and brighter to me compared to Traktor, which is perhaps too refined and sweet by comparison. Too Cold versus Too Warm, maybe. VDJ is more raw, kind of like Mixxx, but without the frequency problems. I guess it just goes to show you that much of sound quality cannot be measured... or at least not with RMAA.

Traktor seems to be impossible get pitch bend with a jog to work properly, not to mention not interfere with the pitch fader when both are used at the same time.

Torq has an issue with assignments and mapping to do vinyl-cueing with scratch wheels. If there's pre-mapped config for the controller, you'll be fine, but otherwise it's a crap shoot. Torq is still rather glitchy in terms of track loading and ASIO consistency. Easily the best layout, though. It's a shame there's no CUP or stutter-play (separate pause & play do the same thing) button assignable that I can find.

Virtual DJ, in spite of its cheesy effects, even cheesier available skins, and cold, thin sound, is still perhaps the most stable and easy to configure of all four programs.

I really wish VDJ and Traktor would get split cueing in-software, though, that can be toggled on-screen/by-MIDI. VDJ also has a big constant-power dip in its cue/prgm monitor blend that makes it annoying. Interestingly, the headphone crossfader feature (for blending between ch1 & ch2 in the headphones) has no dip. Little dip is fine. Constant-power one is too big unless you're playing the exact same signal twice.

To be fair, Torq 2's split cue is a little messed up and the volume of the master/prgm on the right ear drops by like half when it's on. So close!
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Last edited by Reticuli : 11-03-2011 at 04:39 PM.
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  #81  
Old 11-03-2011, 10:02 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Correction. Pitch bending with a jog was finally fixed last month in Traktor v2.1.1 with the addition of the assignment Jog Turn. That's been a long wait with Traktor sitting on my hard drive totally worthless for use with controllers.

Now let's see if they added a split cue...
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  #82  
Old 11-04-2011, 09:19 PM
shihp001 shihp001 is offline
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Did you get to test aerator as well? I want to know how is serator compare to traktor 2! Thx.
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  #83  
Old 11-05-2011, 07:50 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Someone would have to buy me Serato/hardware for me to test it, or at least send it to me to try and pay the shipping. CDJ 101: 109 bucks. X-Session Pro: 20 something bucks. Xponent with massive dust and cat hair on it and seriously in need of fader cleaning (thank you compressed air, 97 percent alcohol, and 3in1): priceless...urrm... 150 bucks. Just kind of sucks the Xponent required so much cleaning and doesn't have disks already with it. Lots of downloading.

Never heard of aerator. I also have disks/serials for Deckadance and Cross Full, but haven't bothered with them yet since they are only double deck. I probably will if I keep the hardware they came with.

I just got done very heavily cleaning, lubing, etc, a used Xponent. While the all the LEDs don't seem to react, Mixxx does have 0.03 pitch resolution at 8% and shows it on screen. Cool! Really bad pitch resolution with the CDJ 101 in Mixxx, but good in Torq 2, Traktor 2 pro, and VDJ. Those don't show the resolution as far as I can tell. Really annoying. I uninstalled Torq 2 AGAIN so I could use VDJ (it deactivates the settings screen) and tried to install Torq 1.5 as that came with the Xponent.

Apparently I have to go through all the shit of getting the software serial transferred over from the guy since it doesn't work with just the hardware serial. M-Audio and Avid have some serious fucking paranoia issues, I swear.

Oh, what was I saying about the Xponent... oh the pitch faders. They're 115mm or so and even though they're really loose and light, it seems to be better for using you finger friction to do really teeny tiny adjustments, like .01 percent around the 0 point.

Both M-Audio crossfaders have an odd quirk where their centers are not exact in the physical world to what's on screen. And the Xponent buttons need a fair amount of push to ensure they do what is expected.

I'll let you guys know how the Versadeck works out when it arrives. I'm interested in how good its long faders are and the internal software for doing digital djing without the need of a laptop. Could be a killer combo that compels me to send the other stuff back.
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  #84  
Old 11-05-2011, 10:05 PM
rs_ rs_ is offline
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I just did a totally non-scientific search, in which I searched eBay.com and eBay.co.uk for "control vinyl" and paged through the results until I found 10 applicable "hits". On both eBay.co.uk and eBay.com, SSL vinyl was 7/10 hits and Traktor had 1/10 hits on eBay.co.uk (and none in the US). Are there any sales figures or verifiable metrics to back up the idea that TSP is the dominant DVS in Europe?

(I'm not interested in hearing about how good DJs use the one you like and bad DJs use the one you dislike -- just interested in metrics.)

rs
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  #85  
Old 11-05-2011, 10:54 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Other than the fact that hardly anyone on the Traktor forum speaks fluent English and they all think they're know-it-alls in spite of the fact they can't understand what the hell you're saying? Oh, don't know. Seem pretty European.

"Traktor Pro's pitch bend by jog wheel hasn't worked correctly from day one. It ramps up the bend rate as you continue rotating the wheel at the same speed. Is there a fix or other assignment I'm missing?"

"Do you realize it stops music when hand on platter?"

"DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH?"

"All caps. Can't read it."

"Never mind, NI just fixed the glitch in the latest update last month after years of not acknowledging the problem or returning emails."

"There was problem? I just hit sync and it party timing."

"Exactly."

You could say I'm a little bitter. My suspicion is Serato’s probably where 99% of serious, competent DJs are investing for the digital realm now. But it is a big initial investment.
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  #86  
Old 11-05-2011, 11:19 PM
rs_ rs_ is offline
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I've just always used SSL because I had great experiences with Rane (reliability and customer service) as an installer in my teens, and SSL hasn't screwed up bad enough to try anything else yet.

I've heard great things about TSP but it has always struck me as a VHS vs Beta thing: if the simple, standard one gets the job done there's not a strong-enough momentum to switch to the one that has some better features.

rs
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  #87  
Old 11-06-2011, 01:22 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Well technically the "Beta" in this case was around first, I think. And I suppose in both cases does indeed have superior sound (funny, actually). Traktor was also very widespread in bundled software with controllers early on. Serato's dependence on hardware slaving has always been a major drawback. In the last few years, though, just as many of us vinyl jocks found ourselves HAVING to belatedly move over to digital as turntables came out of favor in clubs and it became increasingly difficult to find new music on wax, NI amazingly dropped the ball of late… again, just when the market was exploding.

If someone goes digital because either they can't find turntables at venues or they're in disrepair, they're certainly not likely to lug their own decks around most of the time just for vinyl emulation unless they're scratching. Controllerism is the favored name of the game, but Traktor Pro has only worked properly for that if you were an auto sync DJ... well... I'd hardly call them a DJ. So it's pretty much been the very expensive Serato or the long-chintzy VDJ (I’ll admit the latter, aside from its effects, has improved tremendously to where “chintzy” is not warranted. Very powerful Jedi, is he.). Then there was the glitch-ridden and CPU-intensive Torq, which it didn't help now deactivates VDJ and puts malware on your computer.

Serato was just too expensive to "experiment" with in my attempt to manage moving away from vinyl. It looks like sticking with Traktor has finally paid off, though. It sounds even better than ever and finally works properly.
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  #88  
Old 11-06-2011, 01:35 PM
Laurin Laurin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reticuli
Seem pretty European.
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  #89  
Old 11-06-2011, 08:15 PM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs_
I just did a totally non-scientific search, in which I searched eBay.com and eBay.co.uk for "control vinyl" and paged through the results until I found 10 applicable "hits". On both eBay.co.uk and eBay.com, SSL vinyl was 7/10 hits and Traktor had 1/10 hits on eBay.co.uk (and none in the US). Are there any sales figures or verifiable metrics to back up the idea that TSP is the dominant DVS in Europe?

(I'm not interested in hearing about how good DJs use the one you like and bad DJs use the one you dislike -- just interested in metrics.)

rs

Your research could support several different conclusions:

!. Serato time code vinyl wears out more quickly, thus generating additional demand for replacements.

2. Serato time code vinyl users wear their records out more quickly due to a more aggressive playing style (scratching, etc).

3. Hip hop dominates time code vinyl usage, and serato dominates hip hop users.

4. Serato indeed dominates the scratch amp software market.

5. ...

aside from hip hop, reggae, etc time code vinyl users, I have almost never seen a dj using serato in my market in the last years. house and techno djs of any quality level basically all use traktor if they go the time code vinyl route.
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  #90  
Old 11-07-2011, 10:44 AM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Had my first major crash with Traktor after I downloaded this v.2.1.1. Oh boy. I hope that was just random. Also, while I still think out of a great ASIO box Traktor sounds noticeably fantastic, the Xponent sounded just as bad as Torq 2 with Traktor. Virtual DJ's thinner sound cut through the Xponent's hyped tone better. It also turns out that Torq 2 has no compressor on the master out, so what exactly causes its odd signature is beyond me, unless there's data compression and processing always on. It almost sounds better with key-lock turned on, which seems contradictory. I wonder if it’s a jitter problem that's causing the timing and phasing issues. With a higher-end asynchronous ASIO box, Traktor, for instance, really comes into its own. Seems to make no difference with Torq and it doesn't improve with async. And VDJ is totally tolerant of the type of ASIO used, sounding equally low-jitter… if that’s what’s happening.
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  #91  
Old 11-08-2011, 08:29 AM
now now is offline
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Perhaps I should start a separate thread, but has anyone tried any of the alternatives to Serato and Traktor?

Mixxx, for example, recently saw a new beta that looks very promising. What’s people experience with it?
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  #92  
Old 11-08-2011, 01:15 PM
thebuttonfreak thebuttonfreak is offline
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I've been using Serato Scratch Live (SSL) for years, first with turntables and now with an all midi setup. I think it's a far superior program than Traktor if the goal is control that comes as close as possible to vinyl. The effects in SSL are ok, not horrible but not great. The traktor effects are definitely better. Bith sound pretty good if you're using wave files though.
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  #93  
Old 11-10-2011, 10:16 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by now
Perhaps I should start a separate thread, but has anyone tried any of the alternatives to Serato and Traktor?

Mixxx, for example, recently saw a new beta that looks very promising. What’s people experience with it?

Torq 2, VDJ, and Mixxx are mentioned in my posts in this thread.
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  #94  
Old 11-12-2011, 02:21 AM
NAVDEEP NAVDEEP is offline
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what is crazy is all of a sudden everything just started working which was the weirdest thing ever !! thanks for all the suggestions greatly appreciated
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  #95  
Old 11-12-2011, 02:25 AM
NAVDEEP NAVDEEP is offline
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for 3 days everyday I loaded traktor pro 2 each problem just started working 1 a day and I really did nothing !! I even called tech support and they had no answer for me why I had these issues and they were a little confused as I was but like I said everything works great for now no problems at all since knock on wood I just hope It just doesn't wait to happen when I am at a gig !!!
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  #96  
Old 11-19-2011, 06:02 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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New sound winner:

Deckadance. Very good 64bit processing. It's the only DVS I've tested with perfect time alignment on the stereo impulse response. It matches or exceeds the other measurements. VDJ's is slightly out of alignment. Traktor's is very out of alignment. Torq's impulse looks mutilated and is about between VDJ and Traktor for alignment, but the other phasing tests I'd mentioned for it also look weird. Deckadance is Torq-like in most measurements, without the mutilated impulse or phasing issues.

Deckadance also has a master limiter. Split cueing (which works properly, unlike Torq 2's). Cool headphone/pfl overdrive as a sort of loudness eq for cueing (gotta turn down the headphone volume). It's only two decks right now, doesn't have the most mapping options, and seems a little glitchy with the VersaDeck, but is completely rock-solid with an Emu USB ASIO interface, which no other software I have can seem to manage. Really nice sound. Cool effects. And not only can it accept any VST effect or instrument, it actually IS a VST plug-in and can run in other applications as one.

Color me impressed!
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  #97  
Old 11-19-2011, 06:09 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Oh, the new Mixxx beta is still not ready for primetime. Lots of ASIO glitching.

Versadeck has a weird headphone cue problem when the mini-cf is in the middle. In midi mixer mode it boosts the volume. Jog wheel has ramp up. And there's no master through the headphones when master meter is selected. Hopefully this can be fixed in the firmware. Pretty good sound out of it in USB/internal mode, though. Not any worse than Torq's impulse response meets VDJ & Traktor's other measurements, and the VersaDeck's own fidelity downgrade obviously... which is not as bad as you'd think. VersaDeck > Xponent > Hercules DJ console mk2 (less midrangey and furry than Xponent, though it measures worse). The Numark iDJ3 and Mixtracks (only crappy 8-bit faders) have some pretty good soundcards in them, but seemed kind of PPD9000-like in tone. Sort of S-shaped.

Can't compete with the Emu + Deckadance ;-)

Speaking of faders, the Xponent does not give 14-bit action. More like psuedo-10bit. Versadeck's 10-bit is surprisingly functional, though 14bit gives about 50% finer resolution. Oh, did I mention Deckadance has three decimals on its pitch fader readout? Awesome.
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Last edited by Reticuli : 11-19-2011 at 06:21 PM.
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  #98  
Old 11-19-2011, 09:50 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Torq's square wave is mutilated by band-pass filtering in the processing. Its impulse is over damped and definitely 180 degrees out of phase, though there's no ringing on it.

Deckadance has the best measurements of the remaining three, followed closely by Virtual DJ, and then Traktor with its noise and THD figure being the weakest point. All three of these have fantastic-looking impulse response and sawtooth waves when set up optimally, though Traktor is slightly problematic due to its key correction not able to be completely disabled in the options.

The phase alignment issues before turned out to be in-software recording defects. They are not present live. So Deckadance has the best internal recording quality for some reason.

Oddly, when set to Low CPU Load on key correction, the best measured live phasing and phase delay was Traktor.... looking flawless Its impulse also was essentially perfect and duplicated the original waveform. At first I'd thought it actually WAS the original wav file. This was difficult to achieve, though. It took several tries to settle on the correct settings to get this. I say correct, because prior to there was massive intermodulation distortion in Traktor at various latency, bit rates, and bit depths.

It's too bad Deckadance is only 2 deck.

Torq's measurement numbers look fantastic, but it's so over processed on the test waveforms that it's just not worth messing with. It does not sound like just playing a track through Foobar. None of them do, but the other three certainly get closer.
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Last edited by Reticuli : 12-25-2011 at 07:03 PM.
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  #99  
Old 12-11-2011, 02:43 PM
Ross H Ross H is offline
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Has anyone hooked up Tracktor to a Urei 1620LE? I have recently got Traktor and still getting used to it. I've noticed the direct through for a 1210 (playing normal vinyl) is far quieter than if i had the turntable hooked up normally through the phono channels (1&2). Can this be adjusted or is this the way it is?

Thanks all

Ross
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  #100  
Old 01-10-2012, 04:04 PM
Ross H Ross H is offline
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Anyone here use Traktor with a Urei 1620LE?
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