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  #1  
Old 05-31-2006, 01:04 AM
mezz mezz is offline
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outboard RIAA phono preamps

Anyone use external preamps for their turntables? With the exception of the Urei and Bozak phono cards, I assume using an external preamp you'd get some kind of sonic imporvement?
I have seen some folks use RDL (Radio Design Labs) stick up phono pre's and then go into the line in of the mixer. I haven't heard the A/B difference, but I might have to look into it. I have seen tons of high-end home preamps that range from $300 on up, way up.
I mean how much does this circuit affect the sound quality?
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  #2  
Old 05-31-2006, 03:52 AM
Richi Richi is offline
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After the source, this area can achieve wonderful results. The dual mono designs, i have listened to, presented the music in a very pleasurable manner. Grab a bunch of your favorite vinyl, head for a good Hi-Fi shop, and do yourself a favor by experiencing what's available.
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Last edited by Richi : 02-02-2011 at 06:10 PM.
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  #3  
Old 05-31-2006, 07:30 PM
esqmock esqmock is offline
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Preamps

I've made all my phono inputs into line and use external preamps with my Bozak. I think it brings out the best of the Bozak, much better than the original phono cards. I'm using Creek Audio OBH-8 preamps! Ken
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  #4  
Old 06-01-2006, 10:30 AM
johann johann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esqmock
I've made all my phono inputs into line and use external preamps with my Bozak. I think it brings out the best of the Bozak, much better than the original phono cards. I'm using Creek Audio OBH-8 preamps! Ken

Do you think it's a good idea to buy one Audio OBH-8 to record my vinyls on cd? I ask that because I'm not sure it's a good idea to record with the urei and then playback on it.

Also did you buy the additional "high end" power supply?

Thanks
Johann
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  #5  
Old 06-01-2006, 11:17 PM
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LuvLatins LuvLatins is offline
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I don't know because I have not done it but, several pros do swear that hooking up external Phono Preamps (Needle Doctor) sounds amazing. I changed my phono cards in my LE UREI for the DUO ones and love the difference but then again its all in the ear of the listener.
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  #6  
Old 06-02-2006, 03:10 AM
esqmock esqmock is offline
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Creek OBH-8

I would do my recording with the OBH. Its discrete, a definate enhancement. I spent the money to make my Bozak all line input. I have three OBH-8 connected. I A/B'ed my first one with the Bozak phono card and it was night and day! I posted my impressions on the board then. I dont have the upgraded power supply. Finally, the recommedation to use the OBH was Gary Stewart Audio (GSA). Ken
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  #7  
Old 06-02-2006, 03:12 AM
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What does OBH stand for ?
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  #8  
Old 06-02-2006, 09:39 AM
esqmock esqmock is offline
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Obh

Don't know! Ken
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  #9  
Old 06-02-2006, 09:56 AM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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They can make as much difference in sound quality as the main amplifiers selection does.
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  #10  
Old 06-02-2006, 10:28 AM
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LuvLatins LuvLatins is offline
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Who the hell is Ken ? and you wrote OBH and dont know what it means, how odd.
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  #11  
Old 06-02-2006, 10:50 AM
T. Tauri T. Tauri is offline
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OBH is just the model designation of the preamp. Dunno if it actually means something related to the model.

They're made by Creek:
http://www.creekaudio.co.uk/

I have one for my sampling/digitizing setup. Very pleased with it.

Peece,
T. Tauri
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  #12  
Old 06-02-2006, 10:52 AM
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LuvLatins LuvLatins is offline
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Thanks for the link - JB
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  #13  
Old 06-06-2006, 04:19 AM
moonmoon moonmoon is offline
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I use the belari's on my setup, figured id rather tube then solid state, price wasnt bad, happy with the sound on the stock tubes..

http://www.needledoctor.com/s.nl;jse...1&it=A&id=4141
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  #14  
Old 06-06-2006, 07:02 AM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Moon, what kind of mixer are you using and how would you compare the sound of the Belari's to the phono pre's on that mixer?
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  #15  
Old 06-08-2006, 12:55 AM
moonmoon moonmoon is offline
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hey Reticuli , i have a bozak and a rane mp2016, i use them on the rane primarily, originally bought one as a stand alone, figured I get another and put them on the mixer, no comparison to the original phono pre on the both mixers..

I love the sound , musical and warm, little thick (but in a good way), bass has a tad less snap and a little more roll, but I prefer them (roll and all), would never go back..

tube buffers for my cd's and ill be set..( and dump the rane for a urei, peice of shit rane)
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  #16  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:22 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Anyone know which discrete phono preamps have adjustable capacitance? I've been doing frequency response tests with my carts and am amazed how much difference there is from phono to phono stage. It explains a hell of a lot, including what's been going on with the NCE highs. I know the Pro Jekts are dual opamp, but I'm wondering if there are any discrete ones. My TCCs are discrete, but not adjustable.
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  #17  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:36 PM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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These have been getting blinding reviews here and I think the amplification is discrete while the riaa eq stage is done with op-amps
I was thinking of getting two as they are so afordable just to get better snr from my Urei-1620LE as when used with the lower output carts such as the Pickerings you have to crank them up to aboout 8 and beyond which i dislike, I like the feel of 7-8 when mixing..I know sounds silly but hey.
Cambridge Audio 640P

Oh yeah those pickerings go so low they make you turd your pants lol I was playing an old Anthony rother track from 1998 very loud and it was giving me the horn....I'm talkin old skool 808 electro drums BBOOOMMMMMMMM tis BOOMM
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  #18  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:57 PM
pmdubs pmdubs is offline
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Reticuli- maybe you already know of it (or others like it), but you may find this Calculator useful while you get your system fine-tuned.
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  #19  
Old 11-16-2008, 11:30 PM
pmdubs pmdubs is offline
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Also, "opamp" and "discrete" aren't mutually exclusive...I'm sure the terms were meant in the correct way, but just so as not to confuse anyone, "integrated circuit" and "discrete" are whats meant to be contrasted!
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  #20  
Old 11-17-2008, 01:25 AM
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McIntosh preamp I use
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  #21  
Old 11-17-2008, 03:54 AM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmdubs
Also, "opamp" and "discrete" aren't mutually exclusive...I'm sure the terms were meant in the correct way, but just so as not to confuse anyone, "integrated circuit" and "discrete" are whats meant to be contrasted!


Oh, so you can call a collection of discrete parts an "opamp"? Yeah, I meant IC-based opamps verses discrete. My TCCs are discrete, but not adjustable.

***

Yeah, I've seen the big discussion on the net when the guy was formulating that page. Crazy stuff with resisters and such. That's where I learned you're not supposed to be using conventional audio cables for phono outs...coaxial only. Never could find the right capacitance for the Grados on that page. Weird electrical specs.

***

I'm using ATP's this week and they are already about right for my external pres, though they could use a little less load. The Biamps present that load, but come off as too thin. So, go figure. Most mixer preamps make the ATP have more recessed mids, but smoother highs. The TCC give it neutral mids across the board. And no matter what preamp you connect it to, the ATP gives ruler flat bass. Deep, tight, subterrainian.

I just changed out all my tips on ALL the carts and the NCE is so boomy in the bass and fizzy in the highs in comparison. With a spectrum analysis, you can see the Ortofon is flat in the mids, but has like 4 or 5 different presence regions and dips in the treble!

680EL tests soooo perfect in the mids and lower treble, but somewhat rolled off in the lowest bass octave compared to the ATP and more rolled off in the mid-treble, giving that rounded sound and gorgeous mids. If all I was spinning was vinyl, I'd probably use the EL and tweak the system for them. Otherwise, the ATP is kind of a no-brainer.

I can't believe how recessed the Whitelabel's mids are. I always thought the NCE would test like that, but no, the NCE's recessed lower treble and that boom is what gives it that weird sense that the mids aren't integrated well. In actuality, the mids are all there, it's the surrounding bands that are the problem!

The Whitelabels, though, have the recessed mids and least deep bass of any of them, thus giving you the impression it's emphasized in the midbass and slightly in the mid-treble. The Shure's treble presence region is very gradual and smooth, though, but it must get exaggerated due to the quiet mids. Beautiful mids in terms of their audible transient accuracy -- maybe the most refined and audiophile of the bunch -- but not much of 'em.

To quote Black Francis, "IT'S EDUCATIONAL!"
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  #22  
Old 11-17-2008, 04:34 AM
darrylfunk darrylfunk is offline
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dont forget the arm cable changes the cap loading too so that can also be used to tune the interface.
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  #23  
Old 11-17-2008, 05:42 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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Arm cable?
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  #24  
Old 11-18-2008, 05:38 AM
darrylfunk darrylfunk is offline
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cart capacitance and the capacitance of the cable wiring loom from the headshell through the arm and its plugs some arm cables are different for instance its not relevant with moving coil carts as nuch as the lossier magnet circuit inside a normal moving magnet. it affects the high freg resonance and response of a magnet.
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  #25  
Old 11-18-2008, 05:27 PM
whaaat whaaat is offline
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In my dream system, I'd use a couple of these or these as outboard phono pre's. In general, I'm a big fan of tubes, but I've got a Sutherland PhD in my "audiophile" system, and I'm really happy with it. Dead quiet, and battery powered, so it's completely off the AC grid.

Last edited by whaaat : 11-22-2008 at 08:33 AM.
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