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  #1  
Old 07-23-2006, 10:52 AM
Ryan0751 Ryan0751 is offline
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What's with the cheap Urei's in the UK?

First htfr.com had the 1620LE for 499gpb, and now dolphin music has them for 425 gpb! ($787 US).

Are they voltage switchable? I wonder why they are HALF what they cost here in the states. Is Urei going to drop the price here too?
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  #2  
Old 07-23-2006, 11:44 AM
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good question
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  #3  
Old 07-23-2006, 02:47 PM
deepvibes deepvibes is offline
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Bought one from them and had it friday. Everything works fine!
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  #4  
Old 07-23-2006, 04:47 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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The cue section is a deal breaker for me. They made other improvements, I don't understand why they couldn't put a cue/master blend knob in place of that switch. Even without the separate gains you could still have the cue pan somewhere off center to compensate. If I got some open headphones to facillitate mixing there's still the problem of not being able to get any isolation at all when I want to find the right spot to start the record. The only other option is to learn to mix with a sealed headphone partially on/off the ear. And what's with the manual saying you should use headphones with an impedence greater than or equal to 200ohms?
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  #5  
Old 07-23-2006, 07:15 PM
thermionic thermionic is offline
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Quote:
And what's with the manual saying you should use headphones with an impedence greater than or equal to 200ohms?

I'm surfing on a different 'puter to the one I have the original 1620 manual / schematic on, but that doesn't sound right to me. A well-designed headphone amp should have no problem at all driving down to 30 Ohms; if it doesn't have the current / low enough output-impedance to go below 200 then a compromise has been made I suspect.

The other suspect 'spec on the Chinese-made unit is the way they quote distortion @ 0.1% from 30Hz, whereas the original quoted 0.1% from 20Hz. Although 'specs usually mean little in the real-world, the UREi has an output transformer; and as distortion in transformers goes up exponentially as frequency gets lower - bearing in mind that 10Hz is a considerable tolerance when you get this far down the frequency range - quoting a different bandwidth poses a question mark...

The Chinese may be able to manufacture consumer products well in volume (not in my experience, Japan would be king at that...but I'll give the benefit of the doubt...) , but transformers take decades of culture to perfect - you ever wondered why Brian Sowter, Bill Whitlock from Jensen and Per Lundahl have letters after their names?

Designing and making transformers and inductors is an "academic art" - the amount of variables is scary...

To prove the point: the vintage trend has meant numerous companies have re-released products from the seventies. Several of these companies did not have the original transformer literature and as such the modern recreations do not sound or measure the same, even after weeks of dissecting and reverse-engineering original units! It only takes a slight tolerance drift on, say, ratio of nickel to iron and the hysterisis curve will be completely different... How many transformer companies from the seventies are still around? Some are, some aren't...

The UREi isn't the only classic recreation made in China that's received a lukewarm response, check This link

Get the UREi while you can - at that price they certainly aren't making a profit: even if the case-work and signal transformers are cheap-as-chips, those ALPS pots are always going to cost.

I can't say anymore as a breach of confidence would be made, but - trust me - get it while you can...


Justin

edit - link is currently down for maintenance, should be back up soon. There are many stories mirroring the opinion in the link.

Last edited by thermionic : 07-23-2006 at 07:24 PM.
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  #6  
Old 07-23-2006, 08:11 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
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The ability to either check two cues in the headphones or one cue and the master together is, at the very least, a confidence feature, in my opinion. I just did a 2 hour or so set with the gains at 1:30 (unity on the PPD01), and only using the line faders, headphone volume, master volume, and cue pan on one side or the other of the two channels. I used a pair of Koss Ktx-4 and then Sporta Pro headphones for cueing. All my other headphones are specialized isolation headphones ranging from $300 to $100 each. The cheapo Koss are the only other headphones I've got left in my inventory after friends have borrowed the rest. It worked pretty well, and similar tracks were much easier to mix together very quickly. But about half the tracks needed slight adjustment as I was blending in, and once or twice I really really wanted to check the blend in the headphones first. The last track, mixing vinyl with a 30% sped up & Key-locked CD in a hurry, finally forced me to cheat and move the cue pan to the middle. It just couldn't be helped. I didn't want to screw up the mix on what I had decided was the last track. Even if I try to continue mixing like this in the future, I'd still want that cue/master pan or multi-cue feature as an emergency backup. If I had to pick between the two, I'd choose the multi-cue over cue/master pan since it allows me to compare any two sources in the phones...whether they're playing out the master or not. But in the case of the Urei I could live with the pan knob. I'd be scared to mix without it.

Last edited by Reticuli : 07-23-2006 at 08:22 PM.
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  #7  
Old 07-25-2006, 10:14 PM
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LuvLatins LuvLatins is offline
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So what is the verdict. Is the cheaper unit the same as the one being sold in the United States ?
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  #8  
Old 07-26-2006, 05:11 AM
Laurin Laurin is offline
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Same unit!

I was yesterday in Birmingham an checked HTFR.
Here in Germany the prices are still on the same level than in the States.
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  #9  
Old 07-27-2006, 03:42 AM
indycling indycling is offline
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Hi All

Emailed Chemical records in the UK and their price is GBP 499 incl VAT (Value added tax - basicall a sales tax) BUT for shipments outside of the UK they like most UK shops who export DO NOT CHARGE VAT (i.e. price just under GBP425)... with shipping to Australia (possible cheaper to USA I would guess) they will do for £492.18.

BUT just had a look at the Dolphin Music site and the GBP425 is VAT Inclusive!!! So if they will do the VAT exclusive price on the GBP425 I think that will take off a further 17.5% !!!!

Andrew
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  #10  
Old 07-27-2006, 07:51 AM
boogieman boogieman is offline
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HTFR are being right assholes not removing VAT for overseas purchases - i say a boycott is in order, buy your tunes/gear elsewhere until they do the right thing
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  #11  
Old 07-28-2006, 04:35 AM
darrylfunk darrylfunk is offline
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htfr

known bootleggers.
known as bad for customer service.
currently owe me £30 for a refund on a miss sold item.
best bet is to deal with dolphin and chemikal records.
please don't give your business to htfr.
darryl.
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  #12  
Old 07-28-2006, 05:11 AM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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Just wondering how much would you pay for an original un-moded urei here in the uk? I think they were taking the piss asking £1000 originaly for the Soundcraft urei, its a cheap china export and probably costs fuck all to make, generic ic's , and as someone said probs a shitty transformer witch in few years i bet will buzzzzzzz and all sorts ohh but alps pots..so what. Dont get me wrong £499 is a great price but..I wouldnt of badged it a urei or called it a 1620 its not is it, it's a water'down clone. The reason its called the 1620 is because it almost looks identical, sorry i changed my mind I dont want a fake, it's like buyng one of those nissan crappy things and puting a ferrari body kit on it so it looks exactly the same from the out side (usualy an mr2 or something underneath) If I have a urei I wan a real Urei
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  #13  
Old 07-28-2006, 05:23 AM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
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One last thing, the price drop just proves how mutch money they were making on it! The reason for the price drop here in the uk only is because slow sales in the uk, reason beeing most people prefer to buy a djm or a&h mixer these are the hype here while us and europe whell mainly us the rotary in clubs is still king (I might me wrong but this is my view) This is the birth place of house and disco these were the mixers installed in all those clubs, people grew up with them of course they want one! more sales same price, less sales here in the uk lets drop the price, I bet they are still making lots of money on it otherwise they wouldnt of put it that low! You are forgeting its a very simple mixer, no fx, no expensive blue led's ohh wait one! no P&G faders, no per ch eq's etc etc, if you coppy a urei using generic parts it's going to be verry cheap compared to other dj mixers with all those features and crap, the most expensive things on the urei are the case, transformer and those alps pots in that order. oh and one blue led lol
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  #14  
Old 07-28-2006, 09:43 AM
darrylfunk darrylfunk is offline
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sad though

the fact is its well built compared to most other mixers.
sounds better than most other mixers.
is a tried and tested design.
better than and allen and heath excepting the v6 and s6 range.
so the fact that british muppets like to use crap pioneer gear over it says loads about what they think a dj's job is.
its not all about the mix its about the music.
the urei gives a good clean , warm sound that allows the music to speak for itself better than any awful pioneer.
the chinese also currently make some of the very best components available so were its built is only part of the story.
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  #15  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:51 PM
Leeee Leeee is offline
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Exactly.....

I must state from the outset that i have and love a 1620 LE.

Its not the original thats is clear.......but the fact that its made in China means nothing anymore...... I was only reading an American HI FI mag the other month when it reviews only 'high end' hifi. The particular product was very high end and had the full approval of the tester concerned.

All i know is that my UREI 1620 (dare i call it that?) sounds and handles amazingly. I have used one or two 'originals' in the past and to this end i went out and purchased the LE. If i could have got my hands on an original in A1 condition then i would have. But i have no gripes at all. Nor does Shorty by the look of things as he specs one on his webspace.

Not meaning to cause offence here (and please excuse me if i do) but the fact that Soundcraft has reintroduced this mixer has probably got a few die hard old skool rotary DJ's a bit ..cked off.

We should all rejoice the fact i think.

I am a little pissed myself tho as i bought mine say 9 mnths ago from HTFR for 1000 pounds.........

Not to worry....... more people mixing on something so special cant be a bad thing????

Peace...

Lee

Last edited by Leeee : 07-28-2006 at 01:01 PM.
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  #16  
Old 07-28-2006, 03:56 PM
C_T C_T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeee
Exactly.....
Not to worry....... more people mixing on something so special cant be a bad thing????

amen.
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  #17  
Old 07-28-2006, 05:13 PM
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mynameismatt mynameismatt is offline
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what are the little switches inside the UREI 1620LE for?

http://ureidj.com/img/products/1620_insideB.JPG
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  #18  
Old 07-28-2006, 05:34 PM
allen allen is offline
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When you add additional phono cards, you swtich the switch to send the signal through the card. Also there are switches to bypass the eq. In the original urei you had to soldier or unsoldier jumpers when you added or took out phono cards. Also to buypass the eq some soldering was needed.

Allen
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  #19  
Old 07-29-2006, 07:48 AM
thermionic thermionic is offline
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Anyone who works within the audio industry will know that OEMs have transferred production to China for one reason and one reason only: to save money. Saving money and manufacturing a quality product are two separate things.

No OEM that is respected in professional circles has moved its production to China – fact. For example, Focusrite (not that I rate them) make their consumer ranges in China, whereas the pro-grade units are still produced in England – why’s that? If Chinese manufacturing is so hot, why not take the Pro ranges there?

Nikon have outsourced their consumer cameras to China and Thailand, yet the pro-ranges are still made in Japan – why’s that?

George Massenburg debated producing sub-assemblies for GML in China on his newsgroup; after looking into it, he decided to keep production in the US… Note that Rupert Neve’s new range is produced in the US. Note that Tim de Paravincini makes all his ranges in the UK. API still manufacture in the US. SSL still manufacture in the UK.

Anyone who works around professional equipment on a daily basis (i.e. they have a rudimentary comprehension of manufacturing technology and audio design) and knows what to look for inside a piece of kit, will tell you that the wave of Chinese-made audio that has emerged in the last few years has reached a new low in terms of build quality, sound quality and serviceability – that’s a fact.

Harman insulted the intelligence of DJs by taking a famous brand and pumping it out in Chinese sweatshops – that’s why the range is being discontinued.

Hi-fi magazines will always give Chinese-made equipment glowing reviews because their livelihoods depend on it: without advertising they have no jobs; the new influx of Chinese money has been a welcome lifeline to what is a dying industry (the Internet is killing off the hi-fi press btw, check the circulation ratings…). Find me one hi-fi magazine where the company whose item is on the front cover do not advertise heavily...

Some questions:

Name me one world-class recording studio that uses any Chinese-made equipment whatsoever.

Name me one world-class mastering facility that uses any Chinese-made equipment whatsoever.

Name me one world-class Recording or Mixing Engineer who uses Chinese-made equipment.

Name me one world-class Mastering Engineer who uses Chinese-made equipment.

Name me one good thing Harman have ever done for the audio industry (MacDonalds constitute a paragon of integrity compared to Harman).

Darryl: please let me know about these world-class components made in China – I know a plethora of designers and engineers who’d be interested - it would make a massive difference to their profit margins - Thanks.

To add support to the above sentiment, I suggest visiting one of the forums on the ‘web that discuss professional studio / mastering equipment; you will note that Chinese-made equipment is very much regarded as a poor relation to that which is made in Europe and America. These people are professionals who would save a lot of money if the Chinese-made gear were any good – they don’t dismiss it out of dogma – go and ask them if you wish:

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/

www.gearslutz.com


Note that - unlike Europe and the US - China does not have a world-class music industry with which to design equipment in conjunction with. Bill Putnam and Rupert Neve specified their legendary designs by consulting the likes of George Martin and Duke Ellington (or working with Charles Stepney in the case of George Massenburg) - the legacy of these designs lives on and is refined to this day.

Has China produced people that have changed the face of modern music as-we-know-it, and designed equipment in tandem with these artists? Do Stevie Wonder and the Beatles come from China?

Why is it that the made-in-Japan items I bought 10 years ago still function perfectly, yet the made-in-China units I bought just over a year ago have failed already?

If you wish to disagree that’s fine by me, but please answer the questions directly without generalising or resorting to the subjective.

Justin
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  #20  
Old 07-29-2006, 07:54 AM
thermionic thermionic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynameismatt
what are the little switches inside the UREI 1620LE for?

http://ureidj.com/img/products/1620_insideB.JPG

Not trying to cause offence, but the only time I've ever seen switches of that denomination has been on cheap consumer products such as kids' toys.

It reeks of cost-cutting cynicism to see slide switches implemented in a piece of supposed "pro audio"... I would strongly suggest replacing them with wire links as in the original mixer.

Justin
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  #21  
Old 07-29-2006, 09:31 AM
Leeee Leeee is offline
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It is quite apparent here that no matter what is assembled in China it would be sub standard ..............

Lets talk about this in 10,20 or even 30 yrs time when my 'cheap imitation' Urei 1620 (which is still manufactured by the same company-Harman-as the original) is still going and putting out sounds.

People are people......just because they come from a more impoverished part of the world dont mean that they dont know what they are doing.

Not being personal here but some people wont ever be happy unless they are pointing the finger,looking down upon things and generally bitching.

I mean....if you are actually very very qualified to do some subjective criticism then fair enough.I apologise.

Forums are a good place to seek resources and also a place where,unfortunately,people like to voice their own misguided opinions no matter if they are right or wrong.

Thats the problem.

All I know is my (toy) mixer sounds sweet....feels good to use and appears well built.

Peace.

Last edited by Leeee : 07-29-2006 at 09:34 AM.
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  #22  
Old 07-29-2006, 10:17 AM
Leeee Leeee is offline
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I also wonder if, out of all the 'new wave' Urei's out there in all the clubs (prob a few??)....have actually failed or deteriated? Im sure by know they must have had a right hammering....esp by DJ's who know not a lot about levels etc.

Things or events that matter are the ones that have actually taken place. Not 'what if' or 'maybes'.

Peace.
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  #23  
Old 07-29-2006, 07:04 PM
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DSA.audio DSA.audio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeee
Things or events that matter are the ones that have actually taken place. Not 'what if' or 'maybes'.

Peace.


then do some homework on what
harmon ownership has
done to the numerous companies they have
gobbled up over the years...

i admit i wasn't there, but FWIW --

from i have read that the results of harmon ownership
haven't generally been considered to be positive by the

professional gear buying public at large.....

if you are talking about PRO-sumer stuff....
maybe it could be argued that harmon has done a
good job at getting stuff out at good price points
with super slick marketing....
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Last edited by DSA.audio : 07-29-2006 at 07:08 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-29-2006, 08:32 PM
C_T C_T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermionic
No OEM that is respected in professional circles has moved its production to China – fact. For example, Focusrite (not that I rate them) make their consumer ranges in China, whereas the pro-grade units are still produced in England – why’s that? If Chinese manufacturing is so hot, why not take the Pro ranges there?

very true. A&H now produce everything but the V6/S6 and 3D in China. Even the 92 is made there now.
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  #25  
Old 07-29-2006, 09:43 PM
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Rotarymadness Rotarymadness is offline
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I've done modification with my LE.
and became "much better sound"
but I still have something to do with this unit.
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