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  #1  
Old 10-07-2008, 01:09 PM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
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So i found a old cassette

Tape and made a copy of it for my father to cd. It had old styx and christopher cross, Billy Joel, Michael Jackson stuff like that.

we were cleaning the basement out and this tape was buried under a bunch of stuff all dusty, i dusted it off & put it in the deck to listen to it, i have to say i was astonished with the clarity, very sweet nice round sound top end had nice air and extension, sounds better then todays mp3s I have heard with similar music, + with the Thrive Audio Isolator with its tubes to warm up the source & the Thrive Audio Bender 5 way eq to sweeten up some songs when needed really improved a great source and made it better then it was.

Funny how a old technology that at one time was written off to be mediocre is better then some of todays regarded technology
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2008, 01:58 PM
Laurin Laurin is offline
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I am still using a Marantz SD-8020 for recording. Even my RME Multiface cant compare with the warm sound of the Marantz deck.
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  #3  
Old 10-07-2008, 02:35 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
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as long as the hiss is under control, it's an OK medium... cassettes are much better than 8 tracks IME....


i didn't think that MP3 technology was considered 'well regarded' in terms of fidelity, don't 'educated Hi-Fi consumers' bash MP3s on the regular still?

Last edited by Mistick Krewe : 10-07-2008 at 05:03 PM. Reason: poor spelling
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  #4  
Old 10-07-2008, 09:44 PM
Matthew Dowling Matthew Dowling is offline
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MP3's are for ipods and internet music. In My opinion, They have no place in any nightclub sound system or DJ booth! Minus the noise, a cassette will always trump an MP3... MP3's are compressed! I'm digital just like most of us these days, but I sure don't use a Urei to pump MP3's through it. That would be 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

MD
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  #5  
Old 10-08-2008, 12:00 AM
Mr ZDUR Mr ZDUR is offline
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Why is that? I would think that a warm analog mixer would help take the edge of an mp3. I play all vinyl when I play out, but I listen to a lot of mp3s on my bozak through tube amps at home and I would say it is an improvement over the alternative.
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2008, 03:09 AM
Matthew Dowling Matthew Dowling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr ZDUR
Why is that?
Because it's compressed! Crumpled up, smashed together, stepped on, and driven over with a steam roller! There's nothing your bozak can do to undo it. Warmth has nothing to do with it. Simply put, it's a reduction in file size at the expense of quality.

Let me give you a visual.

.WAV



320kbps MP3




Now imagine what a 192kbps looks like, and sounds like!

It's the same principle used for pictures on the internet. if you can see the difference... You Can Hear the difference!






I never understood that. People spend top dollar on top of the line equipment, and then play MP3's on it, or worse yet force that onto a live audience!

Look, Mp3 technology definitly has it's place, it's a tool, and I use it myself, Where that tool is required, i.e the internet, itunes, mp3 players, ect. Anywhere where file size comes into play. I always play live and or record with the highest quality possible, and compress down as needed.

If your making mix tapes for yourself and your friends it's obviously cost effective to sacrifice the quality. If your DJ'ing to any type of audience you owe it to them to present that music as the producer engineered it to be heard! In anologue, .WAV, or simular UNcompressed format.

It is as an important ingredient to being a great DJ as music selection, equiptment selction, and technical skills.



MD
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  #7  
Old 10-08-2008, 05:17 PM
charles0322 charles0322 is offline
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most mp3s are bunk?? if you have a dated track that was made at the beginning of the digital age I sometimes can't tell the diff. between 192 and WAV. The production values were shoddy bottom line or it was just the beginning of the digital era and it was the limitations of the medium..

On that same Wave length.. a really well made track using high production standards at 320.. I can't tell the diff. sometimes.. even on large systems.

I know that some of my vinyl transfers sound good, but I would prob. take a 320 of that same track and compare it to my vinyl transfer and maybe like the 320 more..

I only buy WAV.. but I know at times there is little difference on my ipod or even one of my playback set-ups.
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2008, 05:26 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
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i have heard of net labels/distributors recoding 320s as WAV...
(as in the artist hadn't sent in the WAV, only a 192 or 320,
but a WAV file appears in the offerings bin)

maybe that is part of the problem sometimes too....

just a FYI that i am sure everyone knows about...
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2008, 05:49 PM
Matthew Dowling Matthew Dowling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistick Krewe
i have heard of net labels/distributors recoding 320s as WAV...

In some cases I think it's simply poor engineering, a downside to so many digital labels / lack of studio mastering. But I think that's true, rare but true.

MD
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2008, 06:19 PM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
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Have you guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistick Krewe
i have heard of net labels/distributors recoding 320s as WAV...
(as in the artist hadn't sent in the WAV, only a 192 or 320,
but a WAV file appears in the offerings bin)

maybe that is part of the problem sometimes too....

just a FYI that i am sure everyone knows about...

burnt a piece of music, not only dance, to cd and checked the bit rate size?
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  #11  
Old 10-08-2008, 06:34 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
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i'm not too into digital Shorty...

haven't burned but maybe 3 physical *audio* CDs in my life...
and did not check that issue out at the time...


*edited*

Last edited by Mistick Krewe : 10-08-2008 at 06:43 PM.
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  #12  
Old 10-08-2008, 06:37 PM
Mr ZDUR Mr ZDUR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Dowling
Because it's compressed! Crumpled up, smashed together, stepped on, and driven over with a steam roller! There's nothing your bozak can do to undo it. Warmth has nothing to do with it. Simply put, it's a reduction in file size at the expense of quality.

MD

While I agree that you will not recover the dynamic range and detail lost with compression, I believe that MP3s do sound better on higher quality warm discrete gear. So, another reason why mp3s don't belong in a club is because the gear is typically not high quality warm sounding discrete gear.
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  #13  
Old 10-08-2008, 07:26 PM
rrwilber rrwilber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Dowling
So given the chance, you would walk into post rebuild (((stereo))), a DJ's dream system, as high a quality as it gets, and play compressed mp3 music for the audience? Shame on you!

Quite the opposite is true. Today's high quality club systems will tell on you in a heartbeat... Especially that one!


MD


I would have to beg to differ:

I have heard mp3's sound surprisingly good and surprisingly bad, just as I have heard the same from a piece of vinyl or a wave file. What you cannot do is sit there (unless you stand and type) and "say it is how I say it is and that is that." A person's ear is the beginning of their perspective when it comes to sound... and they are all different, just as the perspectives are. You cannot argue or force a perspective down a person's throat by way of saying "shame on you." Shame on you for even taking it to this point of believing it appropriate to need to say that. Furthermore, there are sound systems built around people arriving and playing mp3's. The sound systems are all different and accommodate to different methods of playing tunes. I am certain some of Shorty's gear can warm up those mp3's and digital mediums so that they are adequate for the crowd / dancer / listener.

The way you make it sound is that if it isn't your choice in medium for music, then you will not dance, or your respect for the person playing it is lost at the moment you discover it's a "crappy mp3."

An opinion shouldn't get that out of hand on here.
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  #14  
Old 10-08-2008, 07:38 PM
Matthew Dowling Matthew Dowling is offline
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I agree, ugly is not where I wanted to go and I apologize. Take what I pass on with your own grains of salt, I've said enough, and will respectfully bow out here.
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  #15  
Old 10-08-2008, 07:40 PM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
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I will be

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrwilber
I would have to beg to differ:

I have heard mp3's sound surprisingly good and surprisingly bad, just as I have heard the same from a piece of vinyl or a wave file. What you cannot do is sit there (unless you stand and type) and "say it is how I say it is and that is that." A person's ear is the beginning of their perspective when it comes to sound... and they are all different, just as the perspectives are. You cannot argue or force a perspective down a person's throat by way of saying "shame on you." Shame on you for even taking it to this point of believing it appropriate to need to say that. Furthermore, there are sound systems built around people arriving and playing mp3's. The sound systems are all different and accommodate to different methods of playing tunes. I am certain some of Shorty's gear can warm up those mp3's and digital mediums so that they are adequate for the crowd / dancer / listener.

The way you make it sound is that if it isn't your choice in medium for music, then you will not dance, or your respect for the person playing it is lost at the moment you discover it's a "crappy mp3."

An opinion shouldn't get that out of hand on here.

doing another 4 hr mix on prepartyradio next friday, you will be able to hear what The Thrive audio product, Isolator & Bender 5 way eq is doing to improve the quality of the digital music i burn to cd.
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  #16  
Old 10-08-2008, 07:49 PM
bbc bbc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrwilber
I have heard mp3's sound surprisingly good and surprisingly bad, just as I have heard the same from a piece of vinyl or a wave file.

EXACTLY!!! Vinyl/wav can sound terrible if it's dirty/bad pressing/bad recording, etc. Sometimes you just can't polish that piece of shit enough
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  #17  
Old 10-08-2008, 07:51 PM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
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Stereo

Originally Posted by Matthew Dowling
So given the chance, you would walk into post rebuild (((stereo))), a DJ's dream system, as high a quality as it gets, and play compressed mp3 music for the audience? Shame on you!

Quite the opposite is true. Today's high quality club systems will tell on you in a heartbeat... Especially that one!


MD.

If I was to re approach that room i wld do things different today, to improve what i had done in there years ago,, and to enhance the digital media being utilized today.

For example, The SBS S3X would help out tremendously in this regard over the RLA. New designed SBS cabinets, The Thirve audio Processing thats now available that wasnt years ago, The Bender, Isolator & Bad Neighbor. + Thrive Audio Amps over my amps of choice years ago, & Other processing and other products I am now using & implimenting that i wasent then.

Out doing what i had done years ago would not be a issue for me, I had already out done what i did up in mtl a few times in a few diff spaces

www.systemsbyshorty.com

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  #18  
Old 10-08-2008, 08:05 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
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i don't understand why folks burn digital files they have to CD...

why not go directly from laptop through whatever interface to the
mixer?
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  #19  
Old 10-08-2008, 08:29 PM
Kevin James Kevin James is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistick Krewe
i don't understand why folks burn digital files they have to CD...

why not go directly from laptop through whatever interface to the
mixer?

Simple. Some people (like myself) don't like DVS systems and would prefer to play on CDJ's.
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  #20  
Old 10-09-2008, 02:36 AM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
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I have heard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistick Krewe
i don't understand why folks burn digital files they have to CD...

why not go directly from laptop through whatever interface to the
mixer?

songs on laptops and the cds with the same song on it sounds better, guys agree that the cd will sound better, but they say the laptop convenience out weighs the cd and not having alot of cd books in the booth.

Last edited by soundmanshorty : 10-09-2008 at 03:07 AM.
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  #21  
Old 10-09-2008, 11:19 AM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
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that interesting, considering that most dance music now a days is most likely conceived, composed, and 'finished' in the digital realm...


wonder why it is? there "must be" a concrete/empirical reason that this is the case....
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  #22  
Old 10-11-2008, 05:07 AM
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LuvLatins LuvLatins is offline
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Interesting thread.

As everyone knows, I am a die hard analog Vinyl Records guy and the systems of old were amazing. I like most old timers have fought KICKING and SCREAMING the trend toward digital and MP3 technology etc.

One would think that with the advantages of electronics that a system today would kick the shit out of The Saint or the Garage. Come on 1980 ? But its a real horse race.

The problem is that the dance music of that era was produced by publishers that were classically trained. The vocals were soulful and soaring. Today its safe to say that its been replaced by BOOM BOOM BOOM and computerized drums, no real vocals etc. So its so hard to compare.

On the other hand, 30 crates of Vinyl would break your back. Serato and a Mac is all you need and away you go. Come on hard to argue how cool that is. Records also do pop and click and skip (Funny how I dont remember that at the Saint or the Garage) Perhaps it was the party favors (grin)

I also do prefer the old Mcintosh Tube power amp at the Monster on Fire Island and watching Warren Gluck tear it up on three turntables at once. He was really amazing at that. And that sound !

I understand that a Tube amp actually distorts the oringal sound wave (The pros say it colorizes the sound) Lets face it - It distorts it ! But the distortion is full and warm. Digital systems too me seem harsh and cold. and today anyone with a Computer is a music producer, gone are the days of the classically trained.

Oh well I am trying to keep an open mind. Look I do use Serato, isnt that a step no no no a leap forward (grin)
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  #23  
Old 10-11-2008, 05:10 AM
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LuvLatins LuvLatins is offline
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In uncompressed WAVE or ACC would sound great but the drive would need to be HUGE. MP3's are compressed but I wonder if you can actually hear the difference. Need to go to Splash and ask Shorty to have the DJ play some MP3's GOD shorty amazing what you did in there to that system. SO SO much better. Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistick Krewe
i don't understand why folks burn digital files they have to CD...

why not go directly from laptop through whatever interface to the
mixer?
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