Wave Music Home
ReleasesCommunityYour OrderWave Music
ArtistsEventsDJ MixesShop

Wave Music Home


Home
About Us
Labels
Distributed Labels
Links




Search


Adv. Search



Subscribe


Email






Go Back   Wave Music Community Board > Tech Talk for Gearheads

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #101  
Old 12-09-2008, 06:26 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: hoodoo audio heaven
Posts: 1,403
good thinking...
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 12-09-2008, 06:38 PM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,421
You know

i am really hearing so deep into the song now, i mean really deep, i am listening again, & i am now hearing very vividly the automation in the track with the fader fading out the fiddles and the fader with the acoustic guitar rising at the same time or a sec later, and i am visualizing the faders going down and up as the engineer is recording the automation fade out and fade in at that moment in this song, and then watching them move up and down on the SSL board, as they play it back in the studio to listen to the mix. There is no noise or clutter around the notes either, jus very detailed & pure music and hangin in the air.

This was not the case with this same song before. I mean it was clean and enjoyable but this is somethin else. The more time i break it in, the better its getting and its very audable. There is some truth to this snake oil cable as some call it.

Last edited by soundmanshorty : 12-09-2008 at 08:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 12-09-2008, 06:59 PM
Reticuli Reticuli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedjay
But for all the Dj's out there that are using computer based Djing programs the DAC will make no difference in sound. Today, most of the big name Dj's who travel are playing from there Computer. When i get the Cash i would like to switch from CD's to Tractor. It seams to sound better then some of the other programs and is geared for House music.

Sure it will make a difference. The digital processing and DAC both make a difference. Software is just a processor method. And any software sampler, sequencer, synth, or DJ software that allows ASIO can have the individual channels each or just the master mix sent to a SPDIF, which can of course go to either a digital mixer of your choice in the former case and then a DAC (if you don't like the mixer's dac), or just to an outboard DAC in the latter case. Yeah, it will change the sound distinctly. Most of these laptops people are using sound like crap. I heard a big name producer/dj at Ra Sushi a few years ago doing the dual laptop thing and while it was really fun, it was also shrill, thin, and generally abysmal sounding. And Ra's not the best sound system, but it doesn't sound that bad.

Last edited by Reticuli : 12-09-2008 at 07:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 12-09-2008, 07:06 PM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,421
Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reticuli
Sure it will make a difference. The digital processing and DAC both make a difference. Software is just a processor method. And any software sampler, sequencer, synth, or DJ software that allows ASIO can have the individual channels each or just the master mix sent to a SPDIF, which can of course go to either a digital mixer of your choice in the former case and then a DAC (if you don't like the mixer's dac), or just to an outboard DAC in the latter case. Yeah, it will change the sound distinctly. Most of these laptops people are using sound like crap. I heard a big name producer/dj at Ra Sushi a few years ago doing the dual laptop thing and while it was really fun, it was also shrill, thin, and generally abysmal sounding. And Ra's not the best sound system, but it doesn't sound that bad.

1000% and most djs wil really tell you the program based stuff is only for convieience and not for better clarity
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 12-09-2008, 11:54 PM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,421
After 9 hours or so

the cables seem to be getting more laid back and really easy to liste to. I demoed again the same dance song with live instruments. The bass has gotten alot Deeper, tighter with alot of strength and slam, But the detail now out of my TAD 15s is just amazing, you really hear the purr of the frets on the bass guitar and really hear the notes goin up and down real low and real clean.

The lower register in the acoustic guitar when they strum the strings is so clear and vivid, you can visualize as if the guitarists rt there in front of you. I cant believe what my emeralds sound like now as well.

Josh From Blaze, his vox is very clean and clear, esp in the harmonies of the BVs which sounded edgy and congested before , they jus are really nice to listen to. The fiddles which can be a dificult instrument to reproduce, are sweeter and creamier sounding, they just float in the air. The top end and upper mid range is very easy on your ears from low to high levels and you got alot of upper air and extension from the TAD tweeters that is just Breath taking. The horn loaded SBS Stacks are really really projectin now and they totally disapear, all you hear is the music not the speaker, with a cable that can make the music sound congested, which my old cables did, you can hear the horn more because of that.

I then put on a Audiophille cd called Super Sound, out of Japan, the songs were all remastered in XRCD24 Format, and is prob the best format i have yet to hear on cd to date and i heard all the formats. The XRCD24 is Very musical, very transparent, ext dynamic with alot musical presence.

So i played a jazz recording off the album from Japanesse jazz king Tsuyoshu Yamamoto with his Trio, originally recorded in SACD. This is a cd i use almost every day, thats how much i enjoy the cd with Jazz and classical music. I have found greater improvements thru these cables on this album then before with these DACS, I am hearing more individuality & spacing Between the notes lil pauses seemed longer then before that i never heard or noticed before from note to note, Rim shots that really pop now and brushes on the cymbyles are far more delicate sounding with greater impact thru the mid band that go up higher. I am hearing the bass players fingers on the fretts like never before, i can really hear the compressors opening and closing on the cymbols now, it was recorded to tape, where before it was there but faint and not that noticable

Then i played the Best of 4 Play jazz album, cut 9 Between the sheets, feat Chaka Kahn I hear her now with more emotion then before, alot more breathy and really out in the mix now. The rim shot on this song was more define and rounder and you really heard how they had the levels in the mix now thru this config.

I played a inst off the album i cant recall the name, again everything was more in focus alot more now, and i was hearing high freq shimmers in percusion instruments panning rt to left i never heard before, and the rim shots again were very wet and rounder sounding and pushed forward in the mix. I never noticed the way the the rim shots were so far ahead in the mix on these songs because these cables are just bringing this all to life.

Then I played a remake by Take 6 of Higher Ground by Stevie Wonder, that was so much better sounding over all then ever before, the vocals were rt there, and I heard a bartone vocal that used to sound edgy and burried now sounds rt and very audable.

So its amazing what im hearing now with the MIT snake oil cables, compared to before with the other cables its so much better. It will improve even more in days and about a week, because i will run a loop for 10 days x 24 hours and that will fully break them in. I cant wait to hear the final results

Last edited by soundmanshorty : 12-10-2008 at 02:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 12-10-2008, 10:02 AM
thermionic thermionic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundmanshorty

I have my cd players looping rt now i will do that for about 8 hours and then listen again that should be some good burn in time for the 1st day.

I`m expecting it to sound cleaner more relaxed and easier on the ears with some time on them. I cant wait till they are totally broken in

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundmanshorty
This was not the case with this same song before. I mean it was clean and enjoyable but this is somethin else. The more time i break it in, the better its getting and its very audable. There is some truth to this snake oil cable as some call it.

No qualified Sound Engineer will ever dispute that the most basic and important piece of knowledge you should have is Ohm’s Law. It’s something you need to use every day.

The reason I (along with many other engineers) say that the success of snake oil merchants such as MIT is testament to poor science teaching in schools is because Ohm’s Law is typically taught to 13 year olds in physics lessons.

Let’s apply Ohm’s Law to ‘cable burn in’:

Unbalanced Output standard is 300mV RMS. This is 864mV Peak-to-Peak

A typical input impedance for an unbalanced Input may be 10K Ohms (conservative – FET inputs can be many times higher).

864 mV into 10K = 0.0000864amps

Or 86.4 micro-amps…


Going on the basis that a typical coax cable’s core cable can handle around 3 amps before burning out, this means that you’re saying that a cable can be ‘burnt in’ by passing around ONE THIRTY FIVE THOUSANDTH of its maximum capability.

Priceless…


According to audiologists, a person’s hearing threshold can shift by up to 10dB at any given frequency during the period of a day… Have you ever thought this might be what is audible? 10dB is about a trillion times more than any decent quality cable can affect the sound…

BTW - you can patent anything – as long as the examiner deems it to be ‘original’. Owning patents is not a sign of talent. In fact, most patents are for the purpose of marketing and less than 1% ever get defended in court. Take Arthur Paul Pedrick as an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Paul_Pedrick

Quote:
Arthur Paul Pedrick was a prolific British inventor who obtained 162 United Kingdom patents between 1962 and his death in 1976.[1] His inventions were notable for their almost complete lack of practical applicability
__________________
Please note that this account is dormant for the time being. I apologise to all that have sent PMs - there are just not enough hours in the day!

Bozak CMA 10-2-DL Full Rebuild

How Mixer Level Controls Work

Important Differences Between Types of Bozak
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 12-10-2008, 01:26 PM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,421
I know all the

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermionic
No qualified Sound Engineer will ever dispute that the most basic and important piece of knowledge you should have is Ohm’s Law. It’s something you need to use every day.

The reason I (along with many other engineers) say that the success of snake oil merchants such as MIT is testament to poor science teaching in schools is because Ohm’s Law is typically taught to 13 year olds in physics lessons.

Let’s apply Ohm’s Law to ‘cable burn in’:

Unbalanced Output standard is 300mV RMS. This is 864mV Peak-to-Peak

A typical input impedance for an unbalanced Input may be 10K Ohms (conservative – FET inputs can be many times higher).

864 mV into 10K = 0.0000864amps

Or 86.4 micro-amps…


Going on the basis that a typical coax cable’s core cable can handle around 3 amps before burning out, this means that you’re saying that a cable can be ‘burnt in’ by passing around ONE THIRTY FIVE THOUSANDTH of its maximum capability.

Priceless…


According to audiologists, a person’s hearing threshold can shift by up to 10dB at any given frequency during the period of a day… Have you ever thought this might be what is audible? 10dB is about a trillion times more than any decent quality cable can affect the sound…

BTW - you can patent anything – as long as the examiner deems it to be ‘original’. Owning patents is not a sign of talent. In fact, most patents are for the purpose of marketing and less than 1% ever get defended in court. Take Arthur Paul Pedrick as an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Paul_Pedrick


MITs cable Break in process is with there network box on the cable, and this is the component on the cable that needs the break in of 2 weeks.

I know theories on paper say its not possible, but there are things the human ear CAN detect that dont agree with paper specs, also everyone has a different ear and hears differently so where one person doesnt hear a diff another can and will hear differences, and ofcourse a systems capability to reproduce micro and macro dynamics when listening has alot to do with the performance of a product.

But i didnt think that the MIT cables would make that great of a difference either, i used to say cant make a diff, use any wire and your ok, im fine with my mogamis, but the MITs infact DID, when i installed my shotgun 330 cables just out of curiosity, and i was hearing things BETTER, i was shocked, & i raised my eyebrow and got a second opinion, and we booth said no way,, not possible,, the Mogamis are great cables how can this be?. I then went bac to my mogami just to make sure i was hearing what i thought was better and it was. The Mogami is a great cable, and i said dam its better with the MIT and my 2nd opinion agreed. So they went in perminently. Maybe the MITs just have better synergy with my components and speakers then the Mogamis, but the MITs are remarkably better in every way.

When I got the spdif Apogees I heard a difference over the Live spdif, another cant hear the diff in cable and people say oh dont get caught up in that spdif cable jargan it dont matter, But i did hear the diff from 1 to the other. So i understand what you are trying to say, BUT I have heard tremendous improvements with these cables and as they are breakin in, they are getting better and better.

Disagree if you want I can hear differences in cables on THIS system

Question to you Thermionic, since you are into paper specs to judge a product and if it is not good on paper it is not good. Since you seem to rt a product off on specs alone, and say its laughable what im claiming, here is my question to you.

a amp with a dampening factor Less then 40 and measures terrible on the scope and charts terribly on paper spec, Can that sound good or amazing, or would you rt it off as it sounding terrible to the ear because of very poor measurments?

Last edited by soundmanshorty : 12-10-2008 at 03:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 12-10-2008, 03:41 PM
pmdubs pmdubs is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 109
there are three different concepts at play here (at least)

1) Can a digital cable, or an analog cable as a conductor make an improvement to the sound beyond performing the basic level of function required as an effective electrical conductor (according to industry standards). Tests say no, many people believe yes.

2) Can an analog cable with, say for this comment, a low-pass network at 23khz in it make your system more enjoyable to listen to? This is subjective so whatever you like do it!
2b) If the effect (a filter in this example) is desirable can it be accomplished in a more direct and economically thrifty manner?....probably.

3) The difference between 'Better' and 'Better'. What do I mean?
3a) If 'Better' is supposed to mean to make the system higher fidelity, aka faithful to the recording than it can be measured as how little deviation from the recording there is in the conversion and analag path; with the acoustic response of the transducers being a little more complex but still measurable if needed.
3b) If 'Better' means 'I like it more' then again 'whatevers clever' right? For example the xrcd24 review mentioned earlier quoted a test system with 300b amplifiers. These typically run around 5% distortion with real world loads. Now we all know a modern amp tube or solidstate should be many times less distortion, but people like this sound for real reasons. The reasons deserve a full paper themselves, but make no mistake that 'fidelity' in the strict sense of the word is not one of them. We all know distortion can be fun right?

Erik
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 12-10-2008, 04:15 PM
thermionic thermionic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 637
Quote:
a amp with a dampening factor Less then 40 and measures terrible on the scope and charts terribly on paper spec, Can that sound good or amazing, or would you rt it off as it sounding terrible to the ear because of very poor measurments?

Straw man argument. You're not comparing apples with apples. An amplifier has a distinctive sound, a cable does not. No test has ever proven a cable has a 'sound', aside from a poorly-specified cable that is wrong for the job (e.g. guitar cables need low capacitance - you'll suffer HF roll-off if you use the wrong cable).

I concede it's difficult to give an analogy for high-end cables; maybe it's because, with the exception of other ridiculous audiophile items such as Shakti Stones, they're without parallel in terms of offering so little for so much outlay.

Why is it that high-end cables have been around for 20+ years, yet there's never been a blind test to prove their validity? Why is it that no one's claimed James Randi's million dollar prize? Why is it that MIT's salesmen haven't commented in this thread? Is it because they know audio buffs who don't know Ohm's Law are easy to fool (I have done so with cables before and deeply upset the person who thought he was hearing the high-end cable), and exploit this to make money?

MIT make the worse kind of cables, i.e. ones that are all about making money from gullible customers. I'm not suggesting MIT cables don't sound 'good', but I will categorically state that they cannot, and do not, sound better than a far cheaper cable made by a respected OEM such as Klotz or Belden. Dan Lavry knows this, as does every respected Studio

BTW - you cite SSL consoles in a previous post... Guess what they're wired with? Van Damme... Too funny.
__________________
Please note that this account is dormant for the time being. I apologise to all that have sent PMs - there are just not enough hours in the day!

Bozak CMA 10-2-DL Full Rebuild

How Mixer Level Controls Work

Important Differences Between Types of Bozak
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 12-10-2008, 05:08 PM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,421
You still

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermionic
Straw man argument. You're not comparing apples with apples. An amplifier has a distinctive sound, a cable does not. No test has ever proven a cable has a 'sound', aside from a poorly-specified cable that is wrong for the job (e.g. guitar cables need low capacitance - you'll suffer HF roll-off if you use the wrong cable).

I concede it's difficult to give an analogy for high-end cables; maybe it's because, with the exception of other ridiculous audiophile items such as Shakti Stones, they're without parallel in terms of offering so little for so much outlay.

Too funny.

didnt answer my question, with paper spec being important to alot and yourself, and if a amp had poor specs, would you consider it as a quality product to possible purchase it, or even to demo it, or would you over look to another product knowing the specs measure poorly on this amp, and say it cant posibly be a good product because of the spec, & can this amp sound good, or amazing that rates beyond poorly?

Last edited by soundmanshorty : 12-10-2008 at 05:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 12-10-2008, 10:05 PM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: berlin
Posts: 820
an insufficiently gauged per length speaker cable will have more effect on an amp with a high damping factor than a normal speaker on an amp with a low damping factor. Damping factor is simply the wrong spec to look at in modern amps. There are several amp designers on prosoundweb that will tell you the same.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 12-11-2008, 03:47 AM
soundmanshorty soundmanshorty is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,421
The guys @

Skywalker studios seem to like the MIT cable as well, I guess there into snake oil cables that dont do anything better then normal cable & products as well.

http://www.mitcables.com/index.php?o...ask=view&id=58

"I wanted to be sure that what I was hearing was real. IT IS!!! The biggest difference I hear is that the instruments sound like instruments. The cymbals sound like when a cymbal is struck in person. A piano sounds like a piano.... It is truly awesome. On vocals, I had this interesting thing. On a track that I've listened to hundreds of times I've always thought that the music over-shadowed the instruments. I immediately heard that with the MIT MA Magnum speaker cables it was balanced perfectly. The voice was detailed and imaged much better and the instruments sounded like REAL instruments, not recorded instruments. I highly recommend these and thank you for the experience.

"BTW-your burn in directions are right on. I never turned my system off (408 hrs). I would leave it on playing the Isotek burn in disk (track 2) and every night listen to the same track that I picked out. Now I'm wondering what the IC can do..."

"Thank you again."
Jason Weissman
"We thought that we were familiar with MIT cable technology, after all we have been using MIT manufactured cables (albeit with the Spectral name on them) for the last six years. However nothing could have prepared us for the leap in sound quality that has emanated as a result of their patented multipole technology.

"With speaker cables incorporating multipole technology starting at around the 200 price point, these cables should have applications in a wide range of systems.

"The ultimate expression of the ability of these cables resides in the MIT MA (Maximum Articulation) range. Awesome!

"For those who have difficulty with the concept of cables making a difference to the performance of a system, you should probably read the following:MIT Cables at Skywalker productions

"When you first hear what these cables can do, it is a bit unnerving. We hadn't experienced an effect such as these cables bring when making any other system upgrade!

"The best analogy to use is a photographic one. Insertion of one of these speaker cables featuring 'multipole' is like turning the focus ring on an SLR camera. The soundstage suddenly snaps into a three dimensional space. Musically what happens is even more profound. The harmonic envelope of instruments is better defined, for example a trumpet sounds more trumpet like and less like an undefined brass instrument. Timing is locked more solidly so, for example, the back beat provided by a rhythm section is more solid. Sibilants are improved also - our theory had always been that sibilants were not a result of excess treble energy, but treble energy presented out of time with the rest of the envelope. The effect of these cables is to reintegrate this, leading to a the contradictory feeling that are listening to a less bright sound, but with significantly better treble detail!

"Multipole technology is also incorporated into their interconnects with similar results.

"The bottom line is that these cables represent a very significant step forward in high fidelity reproduction!"
The Audio Works
United Kingdom
"I have just today heard one of your speaker cable products in a Mark Levinson system and have been totally staggered by the improvements and the 'rightness' of it all."
Steve Clements
MIT Customer
On the AutoTerminator Speaker Module Pro :
"...The MIT parts alone, in my opinion, produced about a 20-25% improvement in all the important parameters. In effect, the soundstage is in the windshield. CDs are no longer harsh or bright, cassettes have come alive, and the tuner produces near CD quality..."
Sal Accardo
New York, NY
On the AVI Component Video Interface:
"The (AVI Component Video)Cable does exactly what it says on the package. I saw significant improvement in color saturation, black level and detail. I have cables in stock costing over $300/1m from other manufacturers, and they do nothing for the picture performance!"
Bill Yungbauer
Minneapolis MN
On the AVI Component Video Interface:
"Incredible! The most amazing color and black level I've ever seen."
Jason Meyers
Santa Rosa, CA
On the AVI Reference Video Interconnect:
"The all new AVI Reference Video interconnects represent a new era in the reproduction of video playback. The colors, black level, clarity, dimension and realism are the best we've ever seen."
Terry Menacker
Delaware
On the AVT Bi-wire 3 Speaker Interface:
"I connected my new MIT AVTBW3's just last night and am completely blown away by the exceptional sound quality, clarity and separation that I am experiencing from my system! Absolutely incredible!"
Randal J. Shepard
MIT Customer
On the MH-750 Bi-wire:
"I upgraded my cables to my first pair of MH 750 Bi wire. I was astonished at the difference. It was the equivalent of a speaker upgrade...
Christopher W. Zukowski
MIT Customer
On the MH-750 Plus Series II:
"I just received a 750 Plus Series II. What a dramatic difference even with 10 minutes of burn in... You have a wonderful product and somehow people need to experience it to discover what a difference cables make."
'Laogle'
MIT Customer
On the Oracle V4:
"I think (the) MITV4 is the best speaker cable available today in Poland and maybe in the world excluding more expensive Oracle cables."
Przemyslaw Sontowski
Poland
On the Shotgun S1 Interface:
"These new MIT Shotgun S1 cables have all of the great MIT characteristics and more!"
Ronald Buffington
MIT Customer
On the Tmax Digital Coaxial Interconnect Cable:
"This is the best digital interconnect on the market... I was not only able to hear a difference in sound, I was able to measure it on my SPL meter."
'jckrhodes'
Lincoln, NE
On the Video Z Reference Power Filter:
"It eliminated all geometric noise distortion. Our plasma demonstration unit exhibited AC line distortion, and the Video Z eliminated the noise."
Bill Yungbauer
Minneapolis MN
"The history and excellence of the MIT company and it's products goes without further review. MIT, with Bruce at the technical helm,has made unequalled strides in high-end audio and especially unequalled in professional audio...
...Bruce Brisson is able to point out events, in his test results, that in every case we could hear. I think that is revolutionary."
Jerry Steckling
Acoustic Engineering, Skywalker Sound
"...the techniques and test and measurement equipment Bruce (Brisson) & MIT utilize have been the only way I have found to accurately predict how the system will sound...
...The relationship works because Bruce and all of us in the Skywalker engineering department have a desire to take audio systems to levels previously not attainable."
Aaron Reiff
Chief Scoring Engineer, Skywalker Sound
" ...Bruce Brisson and MIT cable technology. Bruce worked with our engineers to arrive at a line and speaker level wire system that allowed us to minimize phase errors through the system. The resulting clarity has been a pleasure to all that use that room."
Tim McGovern
Director of Engineering , Skywalker Sound
"Can you have too much?

"This is my impression of the Oracle V3.1 to the V3.2, a phenomenal upgrade, in the bass, midrange, and treble. There are not enough words to describe the difference; I would never believe a simple cable upgrade could sound like a new component. The SOUND, a huge increase in BASS. The size and impact extended deeper with more weight and impact without being overly exaggerated, the back and sidewalls disappeared. Drums sounded more realistic, the whack of a drumstick is definitely crisper. The Depth is far more than before, I feel as though I could get up and walk around the instruments, as they are much more clearly defined with in their space. I am more aware of the tonal character of the instruments, the resonance of an acoustic guitar sounds relative to how hard it was plucked, the midrange sounds so real, as if the singer is in the room with you. You easily notice the nasql and vocal nuances of voices.

"On the CD "If this Bass could Talk" by Stanley Clarke, the last tract features Gregory Hines tap dancing, and Stanley playing the bass. The experience will transfer you into the room with them; you can hear the echoes reverberating in the hall with all the speed and pitch intact of this intense tract. The background is darker, and the upper frequencies are smooth and extended yet seem to have more presence, cymbals, bells and whistles are airy yet pronounced with out being incisive. From another room in the house the entire system sounds much more open. Over all the sound is more open, with amazing detail, detail, detail, the images are more pinpoint and rock solid front to back and side to side around the speakers. A veil or haze has been removed thus allowing one to hear and see deeper into the musical experience. Instruments and vocals sound real as if live performers surrounded you.

"The speaker cables seem to play louder, EXTREMELY dynamic (its breathtaking) faster with more attack, with tight focused bass, the upgrade sounds as if each instrument has it's own amplifier highlighting everything with in it's space, putting you in the front row. I hear so much detail I find myself listening to the CD's on another player to compare what I was' missing before. I asked my wife her impression, it sounds so real she says, as if I were at a concert sitting down in front, I hope this doesn't mean we will be staying home now. It is beyond anything I have ever heard in an upgrade, ultra detail and resolution. If one does not want to hear everything in their system this isn't the cable they want, because if there is a problem some where in the chain, it could be a real problem. A friend of mine upon listing was perplexed for 15 minutes before he realized that it was the detail present that had him flabbergasted. And no, you cannot have too much, for me music is FUN again!!!"
Sincerely,
Don Johnson
"Dear Mr. Brisson;

"I wanted to say thank you very much for the balanced microphone cables that you sent to me! After receiving them I hooked them up to one of our systems here at DTX (Digital Theater Experts of Lincoln Nebraska) to let them burn in before I took them home to use for recording. What a difference a cable makes! I used the cable that is meant for vocals and acoustic guitar. These cables sounds much nicer than any of my previous microphone cables. The sound (now) is very rich, clear, dynamic, and it brought the digital recording that much closer to realism. After first hearing your cables at Skywalker Ranch, then becoming a dealer, and being able to use them on my home recording system I can really see that you have a genuine passion for achieving the best in audio and video because it shines through in the amazing products that you design and build. I highly recommend MIT to everyone because it is clearly, the very best. Thank you again and please, keep building the best interfaces in the world!"
Jason Shaw, Co-owner, DTX (Digital Home Theater Experts) and National Flat picking Champion, Lincoln Nebraska
"Received the MIT shipment today. WOW! I got these babies hooking up the surround-sound Parasound Halo gear and the 2-channel Arcam FMJ gear and my jaw just dropped to the floor. Peter wasnt joking about these things imaging well. They image better than ANYTHING I have ever used. For reference, I have some Nordost SPM reference from my own collection and Audience Au24 cables loaned out by the rep (both highly regarded) and the MIT cables beat them in all regards. The Audience isnt even close at resolving fine detail or opening up the soundstage like the MITs. The Nordost is close, but I am hearing sibilance artifacts with the Nordost (too bright) and lacks midrange purity (too metallic). The MITs are so detailed, but neutral throughout the entire spectrum. The hype ends here. This is the real deal. The Z-Stabilizer is great as well. I am hoping you have a rack mount version with more inlets but I didnt see any your current catalog. Let me know. I cant even imagine what the more expensive Shotgun and Oracle cables could do in these setups. We will definately have to get some more cables in here. I am excited to hear these cables on the ML speakers (should have them in by next week). Thanks for all your help and I will be in touch the next couple of days. If you could send me over any promo materials you might have such as product documents, flyers, etc."
Matthew Eiser
Audio Architect

Last edited by soundmanshorty : 12-11-2008 at 03:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 12-11-2008, 07:29 AM
thermionic thermionic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 637
I don't answer Straw Man questions. No one questions whether amps sound different - they all do. Anyone with an ounce of sense questions fancy cables, particularly the kind marketing by MIT.

Recording studios get given cable. This saves them thousands of dollars.
__________________
Please note that this account is dormant for the time being. I apologise to all that have sent PMs - there are just not enough hours in the day!

Bozak CMA 10-2-DL Full Rebuild

How Mixer Level Controls Work

Important Differences Between Types of Bozak
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 12-11-2008, 07:45 AM
thermionic thermionic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 637
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundmanshorty
i am really hearing so deep into the song now, i mean really deep, i am listening again, & i am now hearing very vividly the automation in the track with the fader fading out the fiddles and the fader with the acoustic guitar rising at the same time or a sec later, and i am visualizing the faders going down and up as the engineer is recording the automation fade out and fade in at that moment in this song, and then watching them move up and down on the SSL board, as they play it back in the studio to listen to the mix. There is no noise or clutter around the notes either, jus very detailed & pure music and hangin in the air.

This was not the case with this same song before. I mean it was clean and enjoyable but this is somethin else. The more time i break it in, the better its getting and its very audable. There is some truth to this snake oil cable as some call it.


Just to reiterate: An SSL console contains about a mile of Van Damme cable. Every channel passes through many metres of it. And you think that, after every instrument has passed through tens of metres of respected industry-standard cable that costs a couple of dollars a metre, putting 2 or 3 metres of snake oil cable on the end of your chain will make an audible difference...

You know that your argument is pure snake oil, therefore you just pick out what you can and throw up a Straw Man... (Any students of psychology reading this?)

I only posted here to stop the spread of misinformation, principally that spending more than a handful of dollars p/metre on any cable is money down the drain.

I will not be participating further in this thread unless a representative of MIT decides to chime in. Believe me, they won't. That would give every respected engineer a chance they've been looking for, i.e. to join the forum and rightly admonish the snake oil merchants for what they are (and believe me, I would email the likes of Lavry and Putzeys a link).
__________________
Please note that this account is dormant for the time being. I apologise to all that have sent PMs - there are just not enough hours in the day!

Bozak CMA 10-2-DL Full Rebuild

How Mixer Level Controls Work

Important Differences Between Types of Bozak
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 12-11-2008, 07:48 AM
thermionic thermionic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 637
BTW - Wave has high-ranking SEO. It's in the interest's of MIT that they counter arguments such as these - otherwise it'll be in Google for ever. Bring it on.
__________________
Please note that this account is dormant for the time being. I apologise to all that have sent PMs - there are just not enough hours in the day!

Bozak CMA 10-2-DL Full Rebuild

How Mixer Level Controls Work

Important Differences Between Types of Bozak
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 12-11-2008, 10:40 AM
Kevin James Kevin James is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,005
My God is this thread getting boring. You two just keep droning on and on and on lol

Thermionic, you have made it ubundantly clear you think Shorty is full of shit and doesn't know what he's talking about. You may or may not but right. But since you are so convinced he doesn't know what he's talking about and that you clearly know more about sound, I have a simple challenge for you.

Why don't you design and install a club system somewhere, (clearly you know your shit so getting a club to hire you for an install should be no problem lol) and see how many club system of the year nominations you get. Shorty has gotten nominated for different systems multiple times in the last few years. If you know better then him you certainly should be able to get at least one too.

So, if he's so full of shit and you know more then him, how bout it?
__________________
Download my latest mixes here
http://house-mixes.com/artists/Kevin_James
New mix added 11/28/09

Watch me spin live Saturdays 3-5PM PST here
http://www.stickam.com/faderwaveradio

Baba Booey!
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 12-11-2008, 11:06 AM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,945
OK, guys lets take a few deeep breaths, and remain calm.

Cable and wire debates rage all over the internet, on all audio forums.

IT IS all about what the individual hears, or percieves they hear, and so on.

Some people support cable as a component, others oppose it. I feel we do hear differences in wires, resistors, capacitors etc, but, Im NOT sure I always like the differences I hear. OTOH, someone else hears these differences, and THEY do like it. Now, Justin had just as much to say to me, about my " antique " cloth jacketed wire that I made interconnects from, and yet, I like em!

So, my attitude to these debates is that I like the varying opinions being voiced here.

As much, I respect BOTH parties, for their abilities, and skill in their specific trades, and craft!

BTW, I like my steak meduim rare, how do you like yours? And IF what you like is different from what I like, who is right, and whose wrong?

And, one can read these types of debates, and HEY, maybe get ideas for things to try, on both sides of the coin. You might come to find something that works for you, that is different from what everyone else does, simply put, various opinion = MORE ideas = KNOWLEDGE!

__________________
Mr. Scott Fitlin
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 12-11-2008, 11:24 AM
Special.K Special.K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by clubman5
BTW, I like my steak meduim rare, how do you like yours? And IF what you like is different from what I like, who is right, and whose wrong?

HA, medium rare is crap, i prefer the sound of a medium Steak, AND I"M ALWAYS RIGHT "just ask me"!!!

Kieren.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 12-11-2008, 11:35 AM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: hoodoo audio heaven
Posts: 1,403
i prefer my steaks "black and blue,"
(sometimes called "Pittsburgh rare")
& on a sizzling plate of butter please

Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 12-11-2008, 11:43 AM
djcm djcm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by clubman5
BTW, I like my steak meduim rare, how do you like yours? And IF what you like is different from what I like, who is right, and whose wrong?


How I like my steak depends on the cut of meat..... Different steak require different cooking. Just like different speakers and amps different cables.
Reply With Quote
  #121  
Old 12-11-2008, 11:46 AM
Special.K Special.K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 630
now i'm starving, off to the supermarket!!!

Kieren.
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 12-11-2008, 12:23 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistick Krewe
i prefer my steaks "black and blue,"
(sometimes called "Pittsburgh rare")
& on a sizzling plate of butter please

This can be good, prime ground sirloin 80/20, cooked in an overhead Viking or Garland 800 degree broiler!

70/30 if you want your burgers REALLY JUICY!

__________________
Mr. Scott Fitlin

Last edited by clubman5 : 12-11-2008 at 12:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 12-11-2008, 12:25 PM
Kevin James Kevin James is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,005
I prefer a filet mignon done medium rare. THAT is perfection IMO
__________________
Download my latest mixes here
http://house-mixes.com/artists/Kevin_James
New mix added 11/28/09

Watch me spin live Saturdays 3-5PM PST here
http://www.stickam.com/faderwaveradio

Baba Booey!
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 12-11-2008, 12:33 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 3,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin James
I prefer a filet mignon done medium rare. THAT is perfection IMO
I'll eat this, and love it too!

BUT, it MUST be cooked in a professional broiler, 800 degree, well seasoned broiler to come out with TOTL restaurant results! As anyone that knows, also knows the broilers at Peter Lugers, ancient, well seasoned units, have as much to do with THAT taste, as the meat itself!

What I'm suggesting, is anything in the signal path has an audible character.

What do I like, that is another thread, and another saga, but....

__________________
Mr. Scott Fitlin
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 12-11-2008, 01:37 PM
edwardcampbell edwardcampbell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 273
Send a message via AIM to edwardcampbell Send a message via MSN to edwardcampbell
Yo Shorty, it's time for another midday mix session. It's time to compare who got the dam best tracks. LOL Real Music.
__________________
Ed (NY Sound) Campbell
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.0.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2006 Wave Music


© Wave Entertainment Group, Inc.