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  #1  
Old 03-01-2007, 10:52 AM
djhh212 djhh212 is offline
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UREI 1620 LE Officially Discontinued

http://www.ureidj.com/products_discontinued.aspx
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  #2  
Old 03-01-2007, 12:22 PM
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Maybe Universal Audio can see the light and build a proper re-issue.
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  #3  
Old 03-01-2007, 12:45 PM
djhh212 djhh212 is offline
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maybe so but...how much demand would it really have? the le was a "limited edition" that soundcraft would have kept producing if the demand was there. i personally think the soundcraft unit is well built....so how many more do you think would sell if universal audio reissued it? because of its limited nature, its unfeasible that even a 1620 identical to the original will be a ground breaking development. now dont get me wrong, i love the 1620.....and i have both the le and the original....theyre all that i will ever need in a mixer...but thats me.

on the flipside of the coin, i really think soundcrafts underlying agenda was to gain hype with the reissue and use it to launch their scratch mixers which i hear are a pretty good product. who knows...

either way, dave i hope youre wrong for one reason....i love this thing so much....that if it was reissued again, id be obliged to buy it again!! =)
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  #4  
Old 03-01-2007, 01:21 PM
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I'd buy at least one of the UA re-issues if they did it. My friend talked with them over a year ago about this and they had evaluated it already. The UA people said it would have cost $400 per unit to do exact replicas of the original. This is a company that replicates the circuit board etching techniques and sources original spec transformers for their projects. Even at a premium price; I think they could justify a teensie weensie run of them.
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  #5  
Old 03-01-2007, 01:57 PM
manny manny is offline
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i dont know why they didn't make a isolator & gains to go with the 1620le. this really hurt their sales.
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  #6  
Old 03-01-2007, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manny
i dont know why they didn't make a isolator & gains to go with the 1620le. this really hurt their sales.


I thought they did make the isolator; wasn't there a pic of one floating around the net awhile back?
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  #7  
Old 03-01-2007, 04:10 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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I believe Harman reissued the Urei 1620 to use it to bolster Soundcrafts entry into the DJ gear market, and to put a damper on what really was a burgeoning used market for vintage Urei mixers. And, maybe reissuing the Urei keeps the patents on the Urei circuits in good standing?

With all that said, they should have ( if they were serious IMHO, about being successful with sales ) come out with an updated version too. Offering the 1620 in its original incarnation was great, but they should have then come out with a second version, with gain trims, per channel EQ, and a crossfader option. Were sales really good enough to warrant engineering a second generation unit with current technology upadtes and features?

Even after I had heard these mixers were sold out, they continued to be available from various sources; i.e. eBay, stores, etc.

OTOH, now that the Urei 1620LE by Soundcraft is discontinued, that makes the old ones more valuable, IF there is a market for them. And thats the big question! IS the market for this type of mixer, without todays features, as strong as it once was?

But, there will always be some who want the older piece, and as the supply gets smaller, the prices get higher.

And, there will always be rotary mixers available too. The rotary mixer has earned a solid position in the DJ/Club gear market, Rane, A & H, E & S, or some company will make rotaries as long as theres a demand for them.

These are my opinions.
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  #8  
Old 03-01-2007, 04:49 PM
der geile ami der geile ami is offline
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what a shame. There are other companies building rotaries, but werent the soundcraft units supposed to be really affordable comparatively? If they were just to build momentum into the dj market, perhaps they were even sold at near losses.
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2007, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by der geile ami
what a shame. There are other companies building rotaries, but werent the soundcraft units supposed to be really affordable comparatively? If they were just to build momentum into the dj market, perhaps they were even sold at near losses.

No way they were sold at a near loss. If UA estimated $400 per unit to be built here in California (where UREI is from); I can't imagine what it cost Harman to build them in China. It was certainly less than $400 I'm sure.
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2007, 05:24 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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Sold at a LOSS? LOL, no way!

They were made in China, and the engineering was done years ago, so no big expenditure there, just order the parts, and assemble!

Did you know that shipping container loads of parts and chassis to China, having these parts assembled in China, and shipping the containers of finished products back to the United States is still cheaper than manufacturing here?

And the parts on the LE board? Pennies, man, pennies! The most expensive thing is the metal work, and then the pots, the resistors and caps are pennies, and when your a big manufacturer buying in bulk, you can buy priced right! Yes, all the resistors, caps, and op amps in the LE are of the " costs cents per piece when buying by the thousands " variety! Even the original Urei had typical, inexpensive " bulk " parts. Only the pots, transformers, and metal work were slightly expensive.

Sorry, they didnt sell them at a loss!
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Last edited by clubman5 : 03-01-2007 at 05:34 PM.
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  #11  
Old 03-01-2007, 08:12 PM
Jesper Jesper is offline
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I guess that producing gear in China is a bit like printing a book - you order say 1000 books or units, they manufacture the bulk in a relatively short time and send you the production in one big lot. And when you manage to sell all the 1000 books/units and decide that demand is still high, you order a repress, another bulk of 1000. But when there are only 100-200 people still scratching their heads unable to decide wheter to buy one or not, it is better to "discontinue" the product and not to order the second bulk, because you will end up with at least 800 useless copies/units.

They clearly supplied enogh mixers to meet the demand worldwide, otherwise there would not have been those 50% discounts lately.
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  #12  
Old 03-01-2007, 08:18 PM
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the 50% discount (I guess you're talking about the HTFR deal) brought it down to the normal profit margins they were getting in the US.....
(i bet still a slightly higher margin in the UK due to a shorter transport)


not like they are offering them for $600 in the US
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Last edited by DSA.audio : 03-01-2007 at 08:21 PM.
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  #13  
Old 03-01-2007, 09:41 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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Yeah, maybe, and maybe not. Why? Because, if they werent doing well with the mixer, or mixers, they wouldnt have ADDED 3 more models to the line of Urei mixers by Soundcraft!

Originally, it was the 1620, a 1601, and a 1603. Now they have FIVE models of battle mixers by Urei!

They used the Urei 1620 to get the hype they needed to properly launch Soundcraft into the DJ mixer market, and I`d say it worked out pretty well.



http://www.ureidj.com/products.aspx

You can see they took away one model, but added three others! Re-issuing the 1620 got them much needed publicity and hype.
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  #14  
Old 03-02-2007, 07:12 AM
Jesper Jesper is offline
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But do you think there is a longlasting demand on Bozak/Urei 1620 style rotary mixers? I feel that all the other current rotary mixers have channel isolators, gains, crossfaders, complicated monitoring block etc so their clients probably want those things, and all the fans of simplicity who did not own the original Urei or Bozak have bought an LE
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  #15  
Old 03-02-2007, 08:43 AM
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I know of several local kids who were saving for a LE....
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  #16  
Old 03-02-2007, 09:22 AM
thermionic thermionic is offline
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From talking to distributors and visiting clubs in the last year (the Peven Everett PA at the Egg club last summer was half full! I thought it would be sold out...), it seems that the US-House (i.e. Blues-based house) scene is about a hundredth of the size of the commercial house and trance scenes...

Considering the latter group rarely use rotary mixers, which tend to be most popular with US-type House jocks, it doesn't take an Einstein to see why the 1620LE is discontinued...

UREi sponsored a couple of club events I attended in the UK last year (part-sponsor, I think, name-on-the-flyer sponsorship). Both nights had great DJs, but were half full...

In the UK - traditionally a big market for moody house jocks (consider that Humphries and Levan both had residencies here), US House has gone back underground in a major manner. Many of the people who used to follow the likes of Humphries and Carpenter have had kids and settled down with mortgages etc...

I do see a younger generation coming through, but - on the whole - the average age at a US-type House gig in London is thirty-ish these days, and the club's rarely full.

If US-House has lost popularity globally, I can see why sales of the 1620 would be slow. Not only that, but many House jocks prefer faders anyway.

BTW - the differences between the original and reissue are (to my knowledge):

Late US-made 1620 had ALPS RK40, whereas the LE has RK27 (nowhere near as nice to be honest)

US 1620 had original output transformer. As I've written before, all the firms that have tried to reissue classic designs (Neve being one) have all had major grief recreating their original transformers. Some of the metals are hard to obtain and the staff who fabricated the original transformers have retired.

Rotary switches: US version has pretty tough switches, whereas the LE uses more modern switches which are nowhere near as tough (rotary switches are an endangered species in general today...)

There are probably some other differences (Hassy?).


Justin

Last edited by thermionic : 03-02-2007 at 09:25 AM.
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  #17  
Old 03-02-2007, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermionic
I do see a younger generation coming through, but - on the whole - the average age at a US-type House gig in London is thirty-ish these days, and the club's rarely full.

Justin

and even the younger kids that do dig house and whatnot....

unless they have been exposed to the "higher end gear," just don't know about it....

yeah, they may have heard the name, but many have never really heard anything but a Pioneer 600 with some powered Mackies or JBL EONS.... or maybe a JBL TR series rig....

seems somewhat rare for the kids to be hauling anything else... there is one turbosound rig that gets brought to quite a few Denver parties, but that is the exceptopn, not the rule

they still don't acoustically treat the damn art gallery space they have been using... the sound just bounces right back at ya
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  #18  
Old 03-02-2007, 09:59 AM
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Ill agree to some extent, but, Rane sells alot of 2016,s.

What I hear over here, is that DJ,s want the Rane, they just dont want the Urei with its no frills, no per channel EQ, no gain trims per input, etc!

Justin, yes, recreating the old components, the old metals, the old sound, can be a trying experience. One that doesnt always work out, either.

I would like to see a mixer engineered using todays premium parts that focused on sounding good, not sounding like yesterdays electronics, but, I dont think there really is a market to support what would be a really expensive unit.
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  #19  
Old 03-02-2007, 11:35 AM
bartonn bartonn is offline
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I think it has been discussed in other threads, but electronique-spectacle out of france makes a mixer that is supposed to rival or even exceed both the classic Urei and Bozak:

http://www.electronique-spectacle.com/djr100D.htm

"DJR100D
Inspired by the early american " dj " mixers the DJr100 console was conceived by Jérôme Barbé and Dj Deep.

The main focus when creating this mixer was to re-create the warm and unique sound of the American "dj " mixers of the 80's. After studying those legendary mixers, using the same or equivalent components and with the advice of top american dj's, Jérôme Barbé and Dj Deep decided to create their own version of a dj mixer with rotary faders. ALPS faders used on this mixer provide a smooth and warm feeling when using the DJR 100 ."

Plus, if you have the cash, they will customize anything you want into your mixer.




-Barton
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  #20  
Old 03-02-2007, 11:58 AM
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member CT has the DJR 400 portable...

are they quite alike sonically?

I need to just win 6 Gs in a card game or something...
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  #21  
Old 03-02-2007, 12:04 PM
T. Tauri T. Tauri is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clubman5
they just dont want the Urei with its no frills, no per channel EQ, no gain trims per input, etc!

<raises hand>

Also, for my home use, didn't really want the 3U needs-a-console-in-which-to-rack-it design neither.

Peece,
T. Tauri
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  #22  
Old 03-02-2007, 12:08 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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Yeah, thats true, but on another plane of thought, I wish someone would design a mixer with todays high quality parts, designed to sound good, not like early American mixers.

When I read " designed to re-create the warm and unique sound of American DJ mixers of the 80,s " then thats how Im going to critique the mixer, based on ORIGINAL Bozaks and Ureis that I have! So, now the mixer has to sound like them, not kind of, sort of, it has sound like the Bozak or Urei. If it does supercede thats a plus, so far, though, I have heard different, not neccesarily better or worse! And definitely not the same.

As Justin stated about transformers, so it is the same for pots, capacitors, resistors, op amps and other electronic components. The materials are different from what was being made then. This doesnt mean good componments arent made today, just that they are different from what they used to make. Trying to remake 1980 can be an experience that makes you want to pull hair out of your head.

AND, was it just the mixers that made the sound? NO! SPEAKERS OF THAT ERA! Thats the predominant factor in what was heard in 1980. The speakers. Of course, the music of the era, and the recording technologies used then also influence what one hears. Play todays music through vintage equipment, no matter what you do, it wont sound like music from 1980 sounds on vintage equipment. Im not saying it wont sound good, or sound bad, but, it will not sound the way the music of that era sounded.

From my point of veiw, I think music was very different, and I know from experience that many things of certain eras were voiced for the music and recordings of the day. So, the 70,s thru 80,s gear were voiced for vinyl! Unfortunately, and I mean this sincerely, voicing for vinyl, ala 1980, does NOT translate todays digital source material quite right!

Theres more to it than just the mixer!
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  #23  
Old 03-02-2007, 12:13 PM
clubman5 clubman5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Tauri
<raises hand>

Also, for my home use, didn't really want the 3U needs-a-console-in-which-to-rack-it design neither.

Peece,
T. Tauri
Anything made for pro amd semi pro use will be rack mountable. Only consumer hi fi gear would be made the way you state.

For my money, Ill take the industrial rack mount case, with the quality electronics INSIDE!

I doubt there is much, if any market, for a table top, consumer style mixer. What club would buy that?
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  #24  
Old 03-02-2007, 12:24 PM
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I hear you Scott. It does seem that folks are either interested in rehashing what has already been done, i.e. non creative re-enactments. Or pushing an altogether different mindset, i.e. dealing with physical and economic needs of a buyers market. It seems to me that what made these classic mixers classics, was a mind set of pulling the best sound out of the elements of the day, i.e. the source (vinyl) and the delivery (speakers). It will take a group of enthusiasts banding together to come up with a modern incarnation for today. When I read about the people who developed these machines of yore, I see a sort of group enthusiasm, so my guess is that will have to be the precursor to a modern machine.

just my $.02

-Barton
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  #25  
Old 03-02-2007, 12:28 PM
T. Tauri T. Tauri is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clubman5
I doubt there is much, if any market, for a table top, consumer style mixer. What club would buy that?

Huh? Xones (aside from the V6/S6), Pioneers, etc etc etc.

Peece,
T. Tauri
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