Wave Music Home
ReleasesCommunityYour OrderWave Music
ArtistsEventsDJ MixesShop

Wave Music Home


Home
About Us
Labels
Distributed Labels
Links




Search


Adv. Search



Subscribe


Email






Go Back   Wave Music Community Board > Tech Talk for Gearheads

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-26-2011, 12:13 PM
groo the dj groo the dj is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Which dj mixer has the best sound quality?

I'm planning on buying a new mixer and I've got as far as assembling a list of potential acquisitions:

ARS 4100
Formula Sound FF4000
E&S DJR100D
E&S DJR400
A&H V6 (If I can find one)
Urei 1620 (Vintage rather than the LE)
Bozak CMA 10-2DL

There's no chance of being able to audition a selection of these on a single system (Which is the only way of getting a fair comparision), so has anybody been lucky enough to have used 2 or more of them on the same system?
If you have, I'd be grateful for your opinion.

My main concern is sound quality, but as I'm based in the UK and just the shipping cost to send some of these mixers for repair will be high, reliability and build quality are also important (It will need to cope with the demands of travelling to and from venues).

Finally, I only play vinyl.
Cheers.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-26-2011, 12:27 PM
mg75 mg75 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 294
are you playing strictly vinyl on a properly tuned analog system?
are you ever going to use cds/digital files on a digitally driven modern system?

i think the E&S line has the best of both worlds (and a built in isolator).
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-26-2011, 12:46 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: hoodoo audio heaven
Posts: 1,403
with the level of gear you are looking at,
i don't think you can really go "wrong," per say....

yes, there are differences...
but the differences are really inconsequential...
IMHO at least...

well, that FS throws in a wrench, but i'm sure you can work that out with some
more thought...



good luck with your quest, groo...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-26-2011, 12:50 PM
matsm matsm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Toronto
Posts: 134
I have a Bozak 2DLA which I have A/B tested against a A&H V6 back when they just came out. What I can tell you about that test is that while the V6 was slightly less noisy and a tad more detail in the upper mids and highs, it didn't have anywhere near the warmth the Bozak has. Also keep in mind that test was done before I had my Bozak recapped by Mario so I'm really not sure I would have the same opinion of the V6 should I redo this test today.

Unless you absolutely need EQ or filters on your mixer, a vintage Urei or Bozak is probably your best bet. With that said, honestly, if you play mostly modern dance music I really don't think you would hear such a big difference between any of them (EDIT: save for the FS maybe, I don't know that mixer but Mystick seems to think it's not very good). Sure, all will have a different sonic character but going as far as saying one will sound much better than the other is a bit of a stretch and comes down to personal taste, really.

Good luck with your research and hope you end up with a mixer you truly enjoy

Last edited by matsm : 04-26-2011 at 09:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-26-2011, 03:56 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: hoodoo audio heaven
Posts: 1,403
just to clarify, i was not making a judgement on the quality of the FS mixer...
it's just a much different "form" that the rest of the lot...

http://www.formula-sound.com/products/ff6000/index.php

I would actually love to fool around with the FS line, if I ever had the chance..

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-26-2011, 04:28 PM
matsm matsm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Toronto
Posts: 134
Oops

My bad Mystick! I misread you
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-26-2011, 04:52 PM
wheresmejumper wheresmejumper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Cork,Ireland
Posts: 70
Justin Greenslade,the managing director of Isonoe,'thermionic' on here,is based in Kent.He's probably your best bet for servicing/upgrading bozak and urei mixers this side of the atlantic.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-26-2011, 07:08 PM
groo the dj groo the dj is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
mg75 -
Nothing but vinyl. Collecting it, playing it, listening to it. I think I might be allergic to digital music.
There's lots of good press for the DJR400, but less for the DJR100D (The E&S rack mixer). Have you heard this?

Mistick Krewe -
Love the art, man. Was it drawn for you?
The FF4000 is certainly the odd one out, but its reputation for great sound meant it had to go on my list (Even if it is ugly and available with line faders).

matsm -
Thanks for your thoughts on the Bozak versus the V6. Seems to mirror comments I've read elsewhere. Do you think the V6 fails to deliver adequate bass or is it your preference for the warmer Bozak sound? Or both?
Musically, I currently play jazz-funk/fusion, boogie, disco and 80s and 90s house/techno.

wheresmejumper -
Thanks for the info on Isonoe, my Technics are sporting a set of their feet which I'm very happy with. You a Sultans of Ping fan?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-26-2011, 07:41 PM
matsm matsm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Toronto
Posts: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by groo the dj
matsm -
Thanks for your thoughts on the Bozak versus the V6. Seems to mirror comments I've read elsewhere. Do you think the V6 fails to deliver adequate bass or is it your preference for the warmer Bozak sound? Or both?
Musically, I currently play jazz-funk/fusion, boogie, disco and 80s and 90s house/techno.
Happy to help out!

I think the V6 sounds great and wouldn't exactly say it fails in any way, as one would expect from a mixer in that price range. I just preferred the warmth and character of the Bozak over the V6's razor sharp definition which to me came across a bit cold in comparison.

Given your musical preferences and the fact you play mostly (only) vinyl, I think you should totally go for a vintage Urei or Bozak. The phono stages in those mixers have exactly the right character for what you want to do.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-26-2011, 07:44 PM
RETRODISKO's Avatar
RETRODISKO RETRODISKO is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 918
Send a message via MSN to RETRODISKO
I ll do Urei

because sound great on vinyls, and second, because no matter if some parts are expensive, its easy to repair change.. you can do it pretty much everything with basic knowledge on electronics
__________________
Yaxkin Retrodisko
http://www.yaxkinretrodisko.com
twitter retrodisko
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-26-2011, 08:09 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: hoodoo audio heaven
Posts: 1,403
i wish it had been drawn for me, but it was just the result of a google image search....

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-27-2011, 05:23 AM
wheresmejumper wheresmejumper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Cork,Ireland
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by groo the dj
wheresmejumper -
Thanks for the info on Isonoe, my Technics are sporting a set of their feet which I'm very happy with. You a Sultans of Ping fan?

yeah,they rocked back in the day,and still rock occasionally now too
theyre a local band where im from
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-27-2011, 06:12 AM
vinyl_junkie vinyl_junkie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: South East Kent, UK
Posts: 1,837
Give Justin a call and see if you can try out a original Bozak, he can do anything to these to a very high professional level.
You can do so much with that mixer imo, the 1620 is just a noise and distortion box lol
__________________
--The future scares me, any chance of a lift back to the past any one?--
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-27-2011, 11:44 AM
bossa nolyx bossa nolyx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 211
ARS Model 4100 has way best quality phono preamps. Never heard such a good preamp in any DJ-Mixer. Not in Bozak (old), E&S, Urei (old and new), FS, Rodec, Hi-Level, Xone Series....

Never heard the V6, the new Bozak and the OOMLLC, but both are very expensive


If you want to use only a mixer, the ARS sounds objectively best.


If you are open-minded to use an external preamp, then every one of these mixers should give you a great sound.


I use Hi-Level PM5000 with external preamps and I'm very happy with the sound!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-27-2011, 12:02 PM
Mistick Krewe Mistick Krewe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: hoodoo audio heaven
Posts: 1,403
if you into the techie side of things,
i would bet that you could match the phono preamps
of most any mixer to the carts you decide to use....

http://www.beavishifi.com/articles/Cartidge-Loading/
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-27-2011, 04:49 PM
atf104 atf104 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 588
Send a message via AIM to atf104
My vote is for an original Urei. My 2nd though is for the Rane 2016 combo, very underrated and extremely solid and fun to mix on.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-27-2011, 06:48 PM
groo the dj groo the dj is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Vinyl junkie -
Thanks, I'll get in touch with Justin and see what he has to say. I've seen the Isonoe linear regulated power supply which seems to make a big improvement to the S/N ratio, which probably makes it a necessary purchase with any Bozak.
Reading between the lines, I kind of get the feeling that you're not the biggest fan of the Urei.

bossa nolyx -
Your opinion of the ARS4100 is much appreciated. Did you A/B test it against the Bozak?
I have considered using external preamps but from a dj'ing perspective they'd be a couple of extra bits of expensive kit to lose/ have stolen.

aft104/RETRODISKO -
The Urei is undoubtedly a very popular mixer, but general consensus seems to be that the Bozak sounds better.

Mistick Krewe -
Thanks for the link, it's interesting stuff. Have you customised a preamp in this way? How did you get on? I've always tried to match components to get a good sound (Cart, tonearm, cable etc.), an internal modification would be a new departure for me.
I always knew that I should have paid more attention in electronics, but sticking crocodile clips to people's backs is way too much fun (So what if I am simple?)

At present, the 1620 and V6 have more or less been removed from the list, I'm tempted by both the Bozak and the ARS 4100.
Does anyone have anything good or otherwise to say about the FF4000 or E&S DJR100D?

Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-27-2011, 07:53 PM
matsm matsm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Toronto
Posts: 134
I've seen and briefly touched a DJR100D in a club that had a Rane 2016 just before they put in that E&S and as far as I could tell the sound was comparable if not slightly better. I would say it sounds between the Rane and the Urei. That said, I haven't actually tested it.

About the Urei: I really wouldn't discredit that mixer at all. Having worked on it many times, I find it totally comparable to a Bozak. Sure it sounds different but unless your system is way above average in terms of fidelity, to choose one over the other based on sound would be splitting hairs IMHO. I personally chose Bozak as much for historical value as for its sound (what can I say, I'm a nostalgic) but sometimes I have to admit I would love to have the versatility I would have on a Urei with its auxiliary inputs, multiple outs and generally more available replacement parts.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-27-2011, 08:03 PM
mg75 mg75 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 294
i own a djr400. it is the same as the 100d. just compacted into a smaller package.
it sounds amazing and the built-in isolator is fun and powerful.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-27-2011, 09:03 PM
allen allen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 461
I'd go for the original Urei. I had a Bozak and Urei at the same time and always liked the Urei more. I sold my bozak years ago and never regretted it. In the end it comes down to personal preference. If you can, try as many different mixers as you can and decide for your self.

AL
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-27-2011, 10:01 PM
jnkarrik jnkarrik is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by matsm
About the Urei: I really wouldn't discredit that mixer at all. Having worked on it many times, I find it totally comparable to a Bozak. Sure it sounds different but unless your system is way above average in terms of fidelity, to choose one over the other based on sound would be splitting hairs IMHO. I personally chose Bozak as much for historical value as for its sound (what can I say, I'm a nostalgic) but sometimes I have to admit I would love to have the versatility I would have on a Urei with its auxiliary inputs, multiple outs and generally more available replacement parts.

I totally agree. I own a vintage Urei and a Bozak, and tend to favor the Urei for its input matrix switching. I regularly switch between two channels of Traktor, two CD players, and three turntables, so having the ability to just turn a knob instead of repatch is kinda nice.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-28-2011, 03:51 AM
bossa nolyx bossa nolyx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by groo the dj
bossa nolyx -
Your opinion of the ARS4100 is much appreciated. Did you A/B test it against the Bozak?
I have considered using external preamps but from a dj'ing perspective they'd be a couple of extra bits of expensive kit to lose/ have stolen.
No, I did no A/B test. Only between ARS, Urei (old), PM5000 and Rane. And at home I A/B tested PM5000 against Rodec, Xone Series, Rane, Dateq, Eso, Discom.

Sometimes there is no A/B test necessary to recognize the differences. And there are huge differences between ARS and Bozak (old!). I can only repeat what I wrote: The ARS is the mixer with the far best internal phono preamps I ever heard. Then comes Hi-Level/Rodec/Rane - depending on what the user likes to hear.

We compared all these mixers. We had a Lehmann Black cube twin preamp, that improved the sound of every mixer very strongly. But not the ARS, it's internal preamps were really comparable. Was really astonishing!

Price should not be the question. My PM5000 + good selfbuild phono preamp is 500€ cheaper. PM5000 + Lehmann Black cube is the same price as the ARS only. So it makes no difference. Don't know the english prices but I think it should be the same thing.

Quote:
i own a djr400. it is the same as the 100d. just compacted into a smaller package.
No, it's not! (as I heard...)






BTW:
I don't think that the old Bozak sounds better than the old Urei.

If you think about buying the new bozak - I don't have any experience with that.

Last edited by bossa nolyx : 04-28-2011 at 12:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-28-2011, 08:51 AM
Laurin Laurin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 471
Rating:
ARS4100, than the old Urei (but only with external pre amp) than the Xone V6.

I didn't like the old Bozak with House Music and 80ths NY Garage tooooooooo much bottom. Music before the drum machine was used sounds got on a Bozak.
__________________
Facebook
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-28-2011, 10:32 AM
paul1979 paul1979 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Dublin,Ireland
Posts: 56
I have owned a djr 400, and a vintage bozak refurbed by isonoe (with power supply), I only play vinyl, the isonoe bozak sounds so much better than the djr! More bottom and and no noise (as result of power supply), the noise difference between the 2 was markedly different


Since u are spinning vinyl go the isonoe/bozak route
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-28-2011, 11:06 AM
Panotaker Panotaker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 55
I have an original Urei and a vintage Bozak. If I had to sell one to make some quick cash, I would hold up a liquor store.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.0.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2006 Wave Music


© Wave Entertainment Group, Inc.